General Election...June 8

[Yugguy]

Dave I agree with you in many ways, like I've said before I liked the coalition we had, each party seemed to temper the other's extremes. There are aspects of all 3 manifestos that I like.

It really highlights the issue with democracy, in that you often end up voting for what you think might be the least worst.

 

[Craiglxviii]

And that is exactly what many Americans said last year. "I'm not voting for Trump. I'm voting against Clinton".

 

[LostKiwi]

Dave, you have highlighted the very reason I will not be voting Conservatives. I'm not sure who will get my vote but it most definitely will not be them.
I want Mrs May to have someone to call her to account as she goes into negotiations. I also don't trust her - seems to have just a touch too much megalomania for me to feel completely comfortable about her (just look at the Conservative political advertising - "Vote Theresa May" as opposed to "Vote Conservative". That's just a little too much for me to feel comfortable.

 

[AMGeed]

@davemercedes
Dave, what is it that is so wrong with a politician changing their mind? Remember, Theresa May doesn't make all these decisions by herself. She has advisors for all facets of her duties and will be guided by them them at all times. If it appears that a previously made statement is wrong, or a better solution or idea is available, why not change tack?

I find someone who can think on their feet, and be able to change as they see fit far preferable to someone (like Corbyn) who is steadfast in their ideas and will not change when being wrong is as plain as the nose on their face.

Sure, lets have a manifesto, but keep it fluid and able to be altered to suit current conditions.
Give me one government that sticks rigidly to their manifesto and delivers on every point. It doesn't happen.

As for Brexit, I'd rather Mrs May led the negotiations than terrorist sympathiser comrade Corbyn, who has already stated he will pay the incredible £92b figure being bandied about for leaving without further talks. None of the UK public know what will transpire, nor do the negotiators, until it happens.
Despite her faults (and every politician has them), it's blindingly obvious to me after seeing each party's manifesto, who should be governing the country for the next 4 years and beyond. It isn't Labour , Lib-Dems, UKIP or any coalition.

 

[Wighty]

Heard a good quote recently but can't remember who said it " When the facts change , I change my mind " !

 

[davemercedes]

@davemercedes
Dave, what is it that is so wrong with a politician changing their mind? Remember, Theresa May doesn't make all these decisions by herself. She has advisors for all facets of her duties and will be guided by them them at all times. If it appears that a previously made statement is wrong, or a better solution or idea is available, why not change tack?

I find someone who can think on their feet, and be able to change as they see fit far preferable to someone (like Corbyn) who is steadfast in their ideas and will not change when being wrong is as plain as the nose on their face.

Sure, lets have a manifesto, but keep it fluid and able to be altered to suit current conditions.
Give me one government that sticks rigidly to their manifesto and delivers on every point. It doesn't happen.

As for Brexit, I'd rather Mrs May led the negotiations than terrorist sympathiser comrade Corbyn, who has already stated he will pay the incredible £92b figure being bandied about for leaving without further talks. None of the UK public know what will transpire, nor do the negotiators, until it happens.
Despite her faults (and every politician has them), it's blindingly obvious to me after seeing each party's manifesto, who should be governing the country for the next 4 years and beyond. It isn't Labour , Lib-Dems, UKIP or any coalition.

Well, if she's following the instructions of advisers, they're more two faced than any single politician recently!

But anyway, just how many times should our Prime Minister change her mind?
- I mean the solid/firm individual who says "Brexit is Brexit a(nd it's got to be red white and blue!)"
- As I said, she's more spritely doing u-turns than Dame Margot Fonteyn.

EU: "So as discussed and agreed after 3 weeks discussion, on the first agenda item we'll advise everyone that we jointly agree to allow all our citizens free access at least for the next five years..."
Theresa Maybe: "Well I thought it was a good idea but I'm a bit irritable today so no, we won't agree"
EU: "Do you know what you really, really want?"
Theresa Maybe: "Yes I want you to be reasonable and helpful. So let's agree to a joint statement about our citizens' rights.
EU: "You mean we'll advise everyone that we jointly agree to allow all our citizens free access at least for the next five years...?"
Theresa Maybe: Okay as long as you understand that once I've said it six or seven times in public I may change my mind....

My gut feel is that Theresa will end up paying a divorce cost of around the thick end of £60 Bn - but emphatically she will NOT get off "free". Nobody ever mentioned the bills that were outstanding due to prior agreements did they?
- Funny isn't it, that when they wrote all about the NHS money on the big red bus they never mentioned that!

I remain honestly concerned that she supported Remain (and emphatically - she made supporting speeches about it) then when Cameron fell on his sword she saw and seized the big opportunity. I don't mind that but she has made speeches preaching the exact opposite of what she said when she was campaigning for Remain before the manifesto vote I put links showing that on an earlier post. So it seems she was either lying then or is lying now and the big question is therefore how much of the truth are we going to get in future? btw: On the dates I quoted above when she firmly denied she would call an election she showed her colours - look them up and see how many times she used the old favourite let me be perfectly clear..." (when she wasn't of course!). I don't like the woman but if I thought she was a hard faced negotiator (like Maggie T for example) and would really bring back the best result, I would be relatively content. But I think she is just a (not so) pure opportunist.

 

[Craiglxviii]

And Maggie wasn't a not so pure opportunist? Come on.

 

[LostKiwi]

And Maggie wasn't a not so pure opportunist? Come on.

Ah but at least the lady was not for turning...

 

[drmw]

Lucky for some that repetition ad nauseam isn't a banning offence

 

[Yugguy]

I think for me the election still revolves around Brexit. As I woudn't trust Labour not to deliberately get a bad deal, ruin the country and blame the tories.

 

[Alfie]

From reading here and on the other forum where one member is getting destroyed with his blinkered dogma, is that a number of people vote based on who they hate rather than who they want to see win. surely the best approach is to vote for who you think will do the best for the country as a whole? At the last election I voted for a party that I wanted to see win not the chap who stood for that party because he was a complete idiot, amongst a group of equal idiots I should add.

 

[davemercedes]

And Maggie wasn't a not so pure opportunist? Come on.

Of course she was - and she made it perfectly obvious. She wasn't likeable and thought she was royalty but by 'eck and lover her or hater her, in those days she was good at her job.

She showed that she was the best man the Tories ever had and after clouting them with her handbag, it was she who brought back our rebate - the only politician who did negotiate on our behalf.

- You know, the rebate that Bliar surrendered (£9.3 Bn) in return for vague promises that the EU’s "distorting and wasteful farm subsidy scheme” would be reformed which he then became too busy to follow up.

 

[davemercedes]

From reading here and on the other forum where one member is getting destroyed with his blinkered dogma, is that a number of people vote based on who they hate rather than who they want to see win. surely the best approach is to vote for who you think will do the best for the country as a whole? At the last election I voted for a party that I wanted to see win not the chap who stood for that party because he was a complete idiot, amongst a group of equal idiots I should add.

I really think if you got the truth from every voter something over 80% percent would probably agree that they give their vote to the the best of a pretty lousy choice. But when a time arrives when that choice may not be acceptable because of other policies you cannot vote for then you have a quandary because - for example, voting for a minority who have no chance is in my view a wasted vote. Sure, I've seen remarks where people say it's the only way to register your feelings etc but I don't believe that makes one iota of difference - the winning party spend about two seconds dismissing the minority numbers before the corks start popping.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Of course she was - and she made it perfectly obvious. She wasn't likeable and thought she was royalty but by 'eck and lover her or hater her, in those days she was good at her job.

She showed that she was the best man the Tories ever had and after clouting them with her handbag, it was she who brought back our rebate - the only politician who did negotiate on our behalf.

- You know, the rebate that Bliar surrendered (£9.3 Bn) in return for vague promises that the EU’s "distorting and wasteful farm subsidy scheme” would be reformed which he then became too busy to follow up.

That's because he was too busy counting his income from after-dinner speeches.

Yes. Mr Blair and Neu Arbeit. A bit like Obama to the USA, he was one of the biggest threats this country has faced in modern peacetime.

 

[Frosty149]

To get a true reflection of the electorates desire, they have to cast their votes... perhaps the apathy displayed is significant?
Turnout in previous years has always been low, maybe it's time to make the attendance compulsory?
Maybe it's time to ditch first past the post, in favour of a more representative system?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

The problem with the political class is that they in the main have no real life experience outside the privileged bubble they live in which extends from private school to Oxbridge to Whitehall. Diversity of age and background is the only way to improve political performance in Westminster which looks more and more out of touch with each year that passes.

One way to address this is to teach politics in school and allow 16-18 year olds the chance to vote in school halls as opposed to using the usual facilities which they probably find offputting. I'm sure this would redress the balance and hopefully encourage more people to enter politics as a second career having made a success of the first.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Getting the young involved in politics has been a recorded issue from the time of Ancient Athens...

 

[Yugguy]

The young **** me off in the extreme. They whine about having their future destroyed but can't get off their arses to vote.

 

[Craiglxviii]

The young **** me off in the extreme. They whine about having their future destroyed but can't get off their arses to vote.

Plato and Aristotle said the same thing.

 

[Frontstep]

The problem with the political class is that they in the main have no real life experience outside the privileged bubble they live in which extends from private school to Oxbridge to Whitehall. Diversity of age and background is the only way to improve political performance in Westminster which looks more and more out of touch with each year that passes.

One way to address this is to teach politics in school and allow 16-18 year olds the chance to vote in school halls as opposed to using the usual facilities which they probably find offputting. I'm sure this would redress the balance and hopefully encourage more people to enter politics as a second career having made a success of the first.

I was saying the same thing last night to that stuck up ex public school boy Dennis Skinner he was with Dianne Abbott, Rodean old girl I bet.

Later on I had to witness Lord Tim Farron and Sir Paul Nuttall duelling, your right absolute bunch of Toffs !!!!