Best of the best oil?

oigle

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Bear in mind oigle is based in Australia according to his profile.

True but that oil is perhaps even more suitable in British climate than in Oz due to its low cold viscosity. I used 15W/40 Shell Rimula mineral diesel oil for years with great results. It is easy to overkill with oils. The OP did ask for the "best" and I believe that the Shell product mentioned is up there with the best. The biggest benefit with 5W/40, as I see it, is the ability to circulate through your motor very quickly on cold start - the known proven time when 90% of engine wear occurs.

Ian.
 

flowrider

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True but that oil is perhaps even more suitable in British climate than in Oz due to its low cold viscosity. I used 15W/40 Shell Rimula mineral diesel oil for years with great results. It is easy to overkill with oils. The OP did ask for the "best" and I believe that the Shell product mentioned is up there with the best. The biggest benefit with 5W/40, as I see it, is the ability to circulate through your motor very quickly on cold start - the known proven time when 90% of engine wear occurs.

Ian.
My local MB dealer uses Mobil1 0w40.
 

oigle

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>>>What I said was 99% of engine oils have a mineral oil base. The additives controlling viscosity, sludging and even friction modifiers are variable in their quality and effectiveness. The "fully syn" and "semi-syn" oils have varying amounts of synthetic additives...

OK.... as far as I'd understood...

All mineral oils of varying quality/performance are refined to varying degrees from crude.... and as you say varying additive packages added.

Synthetic oils are called so as their base stock is engineered or synthesized on a molecular level. This synthetic base stock can be engineered from either mineral oil or other products. For example Shell produce a synthetic base stock made from natural gas and this is the base for their Advance Ultra oils.

Whatever synthetic oil is made from it produces a base stock of far higher quality, greater stability over time and higher protection than any mineral base stock. Then obviously different types have differing additive packages added as with mineral oil to further enhance performance.

I did say one needed to be a chemist to go further......this article from Mobil does a good job of comparing syn with ordinary mineral oils. https://mobiloil.com/en/article/car...r-oil-facts/synthetic-oil-vs-conventional-oil Note that it says they all start from a mineral base as I said. There are other fully syn oils that are man-made but they are not generally used in car engines. The ones we deal with like Mobil 1 and Shell Ultra etc fall into the mineral base category. Worth noting that the syn oils do give better cold start protection and, when new and undiluted, provide a higher flash point. This is important when using in a petrol turbo engine particularly due to very high turbo temps. Diesel turbos run considerably lower temps and, with proper shutdown procedures, are generally OK for oil temp issues. The longer oil is left in an engine, the more fuel dilution occurs which in turn lowers the flash point of the oil. This can cause carbon buildup in the turbo bearings if the motor is shut down with a very hot turbo. I could go on and on but ........

Ian.
 

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My local MB dealer uses Mobil1 0w40.
Going back to basics.....

Wouldn't 0w40 be a tad on the thin side? My point being if the crank shells are less than absolutely perfect the subsequent loss of pressure means the cams get less lube than would be disired and the hydraulic tappets susceptible to leak down? A slightly heavier oil would push more pressure up to the rocker gear, cascade down with a better chance of lubing moving parts rather than squirting out the side of the mains?
 

Arudge

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I could go on and on but ........

Ian.
Please do....

The fuel contamination.... Are you referring to bore wash? I was under the impression that bore wash was all but eliminated when we moved from carbs to injection?
 

oigle

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Going back to basics.....

Wouldn't 0w40 be a tad on the thin side? My point being if the crank shells are less than absolutely perfect the subsequent loss of pressure means the cams get less lube than would be disired and the hydraulic tappets susceptible to leak down? A slightly heavier oil would push more pressure up to the rocker gear, cascade down with a better chance of lubing moving parts rather than squirting out the side of the mains?

This is a common misconception. The use of very high grade viscosity index improvers results in the oil thinning down at a far lesser rate than it would normally do. Believe it or not, 40 grade oil at 100° is thinner than 0 grade at 0°. All oils get thinner with heat. It is the rate of thinning that varies with different oils.
Use of a 0 grade oil in a worn motor can result in excessive oil consumption and leaks. Otherwise, no other bad effects.

Ian.
 

Arudge

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This is a common misconception. The use of very high grade viscosity index improvers results in the oil thinning down at a far lesser rate than it would normally do. Believe it or not, 40 grade oil at 100° is thinner than 0 grade at 0°. All oils get thinner with heat. It is the rate of thinning that varies with different oils.
Use of a 0 grade oil in a worn motor can result in excessive oil consumption and leaks. Otherwise, no other bad effects.

Ian.
Thank you.
 

oigle

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Please do....

The fuel contamination.... Are you referring to bore wash? I was under the impression that bore wash was all but eliminated when we moved from carbs to injection?

Certainly less than it used to be but unburnt fuel, mainly on cold starts, will find its way past the rings and gradually contaminate oil. This is normally not too much of a problem with vehicles that do regular long runs where the oil temp will evaporate most of the fuel content. When motors are used on short runs and don't get to full operating temp for extended periods, the fuel content will buildup, resulting in loss of lubricating quality and lowering flash point of the oil. Condensation can also be a factor here - no doubt you have seen "mayonnaise" under the oil cap on some motors. That is water mixed with oil with probably some fuel along for the ride.
One does still see posts about "oil level rising" in sumps. This can, amongst other possibilities, be the cause. This is the main reason oil changes are recommended, not just on mileage, but on time.

Ian.
 

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Ian thanks for the link a few posts back. I think it is possible that we are just singing a slightly different tune from the same hymn sheet. In the Mobil link you gave to explain synthetics it says...

Synthetic oil is not only refined but also distilled, purified and broken down into its basic molecules. This process not only removes more impurities from the crude oil but also enables individual molecules in the oil to be tailored to the demands of modern engines. These customized molecules provide higher levels of protection and performance than conventional oils. But the synthetic base oil is only half the story. The correct blend additives must go into the mix to create the oil.

It is from information such as above, from the oil makers themselves over the years referring to creating/engineering a synthetic base stock, that I have always regarded synthetic oil as having a synthetic base stock.

In the UK we have for a while had synthetic oil made entirely from a synthetic base stock produced from natural gas not mineral or crude oil. It's Shell Helix Ultra. The base stock is created at the Shell Pearl GTL plant in Qatar. Shell themselves say (quoted from their website...

Pearl GTL Base Oils can be used for the manufacture of lubricants that keep vehicle engines, gearboxes and transmissions operating smoothly. Pearl GTL is one of the world’s largest sources of lubricant base oil with the capacity to produce about 30,000 barrels per day, enough to fill 225 million cars per year. GTL Base Oils represent an entirely new way of producing synthetic base oils – the main component of lubricants – from natural gas. We market our gas-to-liquid process in the lubricants industry as Shell PurePlus Technology. It converts natural gas into crystal-clear base oils with virtually none of the impurities found in crude oil.

With Shell PurePlus Technology we can develop superior lubricants for the most advanced engines, making Shell Helix Ultra our most-advanced car oil ever. Shell Helix Ultra protects against wear and corrosion, reduces maintenance costs and extends the life of your engine.
 

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>>>When motors are used on short runs and don't get to full operating temp for extended periods, the fuel content will buildup, resulting in loss of lubricating quality

It's odd in the UK over recent decades we have gone from suffering the above and everyone advising diesels for short runs... and then diesels suffering DPF problems on short runs so the advice has gone back to buying a petrol car for short journeys.
 

oigle

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Ian thanks for the link a few posts back. I think it is possible that we are just singing a slightly different tune from the same hymn sheet. In the Mobil link you gave to explain synthetics it says...

Synthetic oil is not only refined but also distilled, purified and broken down into its basic molecules. This process not only removes more impurities from the crude oil but also enables individual molecules in the oil to be tailored to the demands of modern engines. These customized molecules provide higher levels of protection and performance than conventional oils. But the synthetic base oil is only half the story. The correct blend additives must go into the mix to create the oil.

It is from information such as above, from the oil makers themselves over the years referring to creating/engineering a synthetic base stock, that I have always regarded synthetic oil as having a synthetic base stock.

In the UK we have for a while had synthetic oil made entirely from a synthetic base stock produced from natural gas not mineral or crude oil. It's Shell Helix Ultra. The base stock is created at the Shell Pearl GTL plant in Qatar. Shell themselves say (quoted from their website...

Pearl GTL Base Oils can be used for the manufacture of lubricants that keep vehicle engines, gearboxes and transmissions operating smoothly. Pearl GTL is one of the world’s largest sources of lubricant base oil with the capacity to produce about 30,000 barrels per day, enough to fill 225 million cars per year. GTL Base Oils represent an entirely new way of producing synthetic base oils – the main component of lubricants – from natural gas. We market our gas-to-liquid process in the lubricants industry as Shell PurePlus Technology. It converts natural gas into crystal-clear base oils with virtually none of the impurities found in crude oil.

With Shell PurePlus Technology we can develop superior lubricants for the most advanced engines, making Shell Helix Ultra our most-advanced car oil ever. Shell Helix Ultra protects against wear and corrosion, reduces maintenance costs and extends the life of your engine.

Good post mate and quite accurate. Of course natural gas is still mineral oil but in a different form. Yes, the end product is the equivalent of very highly refined mineral oil with most of the impurities removed. It also provides an easy way to produce the required very low viscosity oil required for the purpose.
I wonder a little at the benefit of having all the impurities removed to such an extent. The moment it enters your engine and does a run, it is collecting impurities from fuel, water and metal particles. Wouldn't stay too pure for long. Mineral oils have done a marvellous job for many years with these impurities in the product with no apparent side effects. The benefit of higher flash point is good though in petrol turbo motors and the low viscosity when cold is very good. I guess you have to get something for the much higher cost. I think, as usual, there is a lot of marketing spiel involved to convince us to buy the product when, in reality, a lesser spec oil will do just a good a job in most motors.

Ian.
 

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>>>there is a lot of marketing spiel involved to convince us to buy the product when, in reality, a lesser spec oil will do just a good a job in most motors

Quite true.

And I understand that producing engine oil from natural gas isn't all about generosity to the consumer in providing the very best oil... they have a lot of spare natural gas in Qatar.
 

flowrider

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Going back to basics.....

Wouldn't 0w40 be a tad on the thin side? My point being if the crank shells are less than absolutely perfect the subsequent loss of pressure means the cams get less lube than would be disired and the hydraulic tappets susceptible to leak down? A slightly heavier oil would push more pressure up to the rocker gear, cascade down with a better chance of lubing moving parts rather than squirting out the side of the mains?
As Ian has already said, the wider the viscocity the better i.e 0w40 is better than 5w40 which in turn is better than 10w30 etc. To put it simply.
 

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Semi synthetic Casrtrol Magnatec 10w40 as been the daily diet in my engine for the last 10 years .And looking at the valve gear after changing the valve cover gasket i am happy to use it for ever more .It was only that i understand , that fully synthetic is best for all engines .But dont see any that i can use .Castrol recomend 10w40 S\Synthetic and also Shell recomend the same .Not one of them say to go fully with my M103 engine.
 

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Just as unburnt fuel can pass the ring sealing so can combustion by products. These mix with the condensation and can form acidic compounds that over time can eat various soft metals. Engines that do long runs can get rid of some of these but those that cannot be removed from the crankcase by evaporation will concentrate over time and is another reason why regular oil changes are a good idea.
 

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Semi synthetic Casrtrol Magnatec 10w40 as been the daily diet in my engine for the last 10 years .And looking at the valve gear after changing the valve cover gasket i am happy to use it for ever more .It was only that i understand , that fully synthetic is best for all engines .But dont see any that i can use .Castrol recomend 10w40 S\Synthetic and also Shell recomend the same .Not one of them say to go fully with my M103 engine.

Here you go

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-2354-lo...20:0,98438:0,98462:0,141964:0&yearFilter=1986
 

Droverunner

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>>>Semi synthetic Castrol Magnatec 10w40 as been the daily diet in my engine for the last 10 years

And you have no need to look for better for your car. Throughout the late 1990s up to around 2010 I looked after a lot of cars for relatives and friends as well as our own. I used to buy GM 10w40 semi-synthetic 20l at a time for a variety of petrol and diesel types... there were only a very few cars that needed better. Always ensured changes were regular and appropriate to the owner's journey lengths. Never had an engine issue related to oil quality.

I moved onto fully synthetic around 2010 for more modern vehicles because more and more have reasons to need, or at the very least, benefit from it.
 

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Didnt know that about the natural gas thing, interesting.

My school of thought is that even if the OEM MB oil isn't quite as good as your all-singing Shell stuff, it IS still good stuff and at the frequency of changes that I do (every 4.5k), is more than good enough.
 

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It was only lack of time to wait for the delivery that stopped me buying the MB oil from Ebay when I serviced our new to us CLK the other week. Next time I'll make sure I have it already in the garage. It is indeed more than good enough. With sensible regular oil change intervals and sympathetic driving during the warm up cycle MB oil should carry an engine through to 50-100% more miles than the average person would expect before other factors scrap the car.
 


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