anti diesel idea not working.....

[Frontstep]

↑ That’s the best idea!

A statement 1) confirming that the public had been misled and 2) stating that as a result they would a look at a scrappage scheme might reassure some with older vehicles. They should also expand on the bald statement (that they made) about no IC engine cars by 2040 – and clarify that they will continue to be available for another 22 years. They should also give a formal undertaking not to slap extra taxes on diesel vehicles but rather to apply lower taxes to “cleaner” cars. Not rocket science really.

A statement confirming the public was misled;

I think that would be a problem as no one member of the government at the time thought they were misleading anyone.

Ms May apologising for a Labour Governments tax decisions,
Incidentally Labour did look at the policy and its 2010 report highlighting the problems was not acted upon, so who should apologise, Labour were acting upon information from a strong car lobby that was gearing up for large scale diesel production.

Stating they would look at a scrappage scheme is a recipe for further delay and confusion as we wait for the outcome of how fellow tax payers are going to fund my vehicle choice.

No IC engines is simply passing on the motor manufacturers plans for their future production.

Giving an undertaking "not to tax" is perhaps number one in the politicians what not to do in office handbook.

I run an older diesel for reasons I am not quite sure of, I have looked at new replacements including hybrids but the only things thats tempting currently is, Tesla of all things and when you get hold of one there not exactly hewn from girders and then a hybrid Lexus which is well made but horrendously complicated and labours with an odd gearbox.

I have to take responsibility for my own actions and purchase decisions and not expect others to subsidise it, the government at the time acted upon the best information they had and in good faith.

As an anology people are buying multifuel stoves which are far dirtier than most current diesel vehicles, I certainly don't think my taxes should be used to pay for them to be scrapped.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Just to cherrypick one point here:

“No IC engines is simply passing on the motor manufacturers plans for their future production.”

There are right now at least three different waves of new gasoline and Diesel engines under development within Europe that I know of. Motor manufacturers plans for future production very much include IC.

The 2040 ban is for, and I’m quoting the DEFRA report here, “The Government conformed today that it will end the sale of all new conventional petrol or diesel powered cars and vans by 2040”.

That means that any hybrid IC/ electric vehicle is exempt. We have looked into this somewhat more, and the letter of the law shows that a car with a couple of wheelchair motors and an extra battery for parking only would qualify as hybrid.

So, in the next 20 years expect to see more cars with small 5-9kW.hr batteries and smallish powered motors for low speed city driving appear. No reason why these cannot be 6.3 litre V12 petrol hybrids either.

 

[LostKiwi]

That means that any hybrid IC/ electric vehicle is exempt. We have looked into this somewhat more, and the letter of the law shows that a car with a couple of wheelchair motors and an extra battery for parking only would qualify as hybrid.

So a bit like some of the large engined Lexus Hybrids then....

 

[Craiglxviii]

So a bit like some of the large engined Lexus Hybrids then....

Very almost exactly like them yes.

 

[Frontstep]

So you mean I should be buying a Lexus ?
The term ball of wool passed through my mind as I looked at one, they are well built but an impenetrable forest of gizmo's stared at me and I just imagined me forlornly poking my torch at it on the side of the motorway in the rain.
Maybe I should just wait for my mobility scooter.

Incidentally "France will end sales of petrol and diesel vehicles by 2040 as part of an ambitious plan to meet its targets under the Paris climate accord, Emmanuel Macron’s government has announced"

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...petrol-diesel-cars-2040-emmanuel-macron-volvo

 

[turbopete]

So you mean I should be buying a Lexus ?
The term ball of wool passed through my mind as I looked at one, they are well built but an impenetrable forest of gizmo's stared at me and I just imagined me forlornly poking my torch at it on the side of the motorway in the rain.

the difference being that Lexus, being Japanese, seem to seldom have issues with their electricals, unlike the German and 'British' (and I use the term loosely nowadays) so called 'premium' brands

 

[Craiglxviii]

the difference being that Lexus, being Japanese, seem to seldom have issues with their electricals, unlike the German and 'British' (and I use the term loosely nowadays) so called 'premium' brands

That’s because Japanese electronics live in the early 1990s...

 

[Frontstep]

That sounds like my music collection.
Perhaps I should go back I looked at a GS300 2.5 hybrid thing with a star wars face and a posh hifi interior

 

[davemercedes]

That sounds like my music collection.
Perhaps I should go back I looked at a GS300 2.5 hybrid thing with a star wars face and a posh hifi interior

- But take a look at its future value... I was surprised how much/quickly they fall.

 

[bembo449]

who actually buys a car on how slowly it depreciates ?

 

[Craiglxviii]

who actually buys a car on how slowly it depreciates ?

25% per year on average.

 

[keefysher]

Dunno about others but I buy a car for using it. I know how much per month it is, and for how long. Not interested in what it may depreciate as I know what it will cost per month. If I worried further, I wouldn't buy it and keep driving the current one, as I did with my 2nd W211, 8 years where it earned its keep in business mileage alone. Of course I wasn't an employee so didn't have to meet roolz around age of car to claim mileage

In the days of yore when interest rates were 14%, it was cheaper to buy a car on 3.4% finance and keep the cash in the bank. That was before roulette overtook sense.

I can only equate this debate to houses. Where I used to work there was an item on the co intranet that gave a view on how much employees houses were worth in the area as most people moved with each project to a new area. It was always 'my house is worth X, blah blah blah, so I've made Y'. I used to get funny looks when reminding people that a house is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, and more importantly have you actually sold it? If not and you have debt against it to service, the fees for the purchase and sale, removals etc, the purchase of a replacement, you don't actually know what it is worth or if you have really made anything on it. Generally unless you move down in price and have no debt to service, fees to pay, you haven't actually made a bean. Shortly after I left that co dropped in value massively, 5 profit warnings in a year. That's the problem with the finance roulette.

Another analogy I use is going to dinner for a fantastically priced meal, in the morning offering to take the residue from the bog back to get the residual value credited.

Same as how the wide can spend to save in the shops!!!

 

[bembo449]

25% per year on average.

so sad . . . . . . .

 

[LostKiwi]

so sad . . . . . . .

Why? Many try to extract the best economy they can and drive diesels for the better mpg. Cost of ownership is a combination of many things and not just the mpg. Depreciation should be taken into account as much as mpg in my view.
I'd rather pay for fewer mpg in older big petrol engines cars with minimal depreciation than save on mpg by driving a newer diesel with 25% depreciation.

At least I get to enjoy the V8 soundtrack for my money....

 

[bembo449]

but we aren't talking about economy , he was talking about used values plummeting , although I agree that millions buy a car for economic reasons , like the prius seems to have become common frequenter on the countries taxi ranks

 

[LostKiwi]

But economy and used values are both part of the cost of ownership. People often look at the economy but ignore depreciation (which is often the biggest cost!)

 

[turbopete]

That’s because Japanese electronics live in the early 1990s...

that may be so, but at least, unlike the new fangled unnecessary cr@p MB keep trying to force on people, they WORK.

what is the point in fancy electronics in, say, a Satnav unit, electric windows, seats etc if they fail and cost a fortune once theyre outside of warranty? I think at the £1k budget end of things, id be tempted (for reliability) by an LS400 before a W220.

 

[bembo449]

you have a valid point there Pete

 

[LostKiwi]

Just thought of a great example of depreciation costs...
Stepson bought a 2015 BMW 640d convertible (yes he likes sitting at junctions). New the car cost £64k. With just 15k miles on it he paid (to a dealer) just over £19k. Thats over £20,000 per year the original owner shelled out in depreciation against a fuel cost of what - £1500 tops? Ouch!!!

 

[Craiglxviii]

that may be so, but at least, unlike the new fangled unnecessary cr@p MB keep trying to force on people, they WORK.

what is the point in fancy electronics in, say, a Satnav unit, electric windows, seats etc if they fail and cost a fortune once theyre outside of warranty? I think at the £1k budget end of things, id be tempted (for reliability) by an LS400 before a W220.

Who says that MB’s electronics DON’T work Pete? Where’s the fact and data to show it? Anecdotal doesn’t count.

“Fancy” electronics in this case means a different system architecture to work on a canbus. Also to work with really good DTC fault analysis. Most Japanese DTCs come out like:

Car working
Car broken

Simply due to the fact that each module is standalone. By the way, the German style electronics are far, far cheaper than the Japanese ones. They just tend to charge more for them. But that’s the nature of selling premium vs affordable cars.