Philips upgrade bulbs .. hard to get info

Submariner1

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Finally Philips Technical responded ... to resolve different sites and packages and their website having conflicting info.

Philios WhiteVision 4,300K + 60% (note now says 3,700K on the latest packs).
The WhiteVision bulbs are rated at 3700k.
"Both values are correct. Due to the special gradient coating technology WhiteVision bulbs provide a color temperature of up to 4300 Kelvin in dedicated areas of the beam pattern on the road. The integral (overall) color temperature of the bulb is 3700 Kelvin. As the color in the beam pattern can vary, depending on the headlamp reflector design, we will use the integral color temperature for the future only. This is why we can have differing data on packaging boxes and data sheets for a short transition time. You received the new packaging where we had removed the 4300 Kelvin stamp."

Philips Extreme Vision + 130%
The kelvin rating for the Philips Extreme Vision + 130% is 3500K.

I know this was done to death but new data on packages and conflicting data on some web sites made it hard to evaluate.
Philips assure me this data is now correct.
I posted it here as it took them 4 weeks to confirm it. And 2 reminders.
( probably cos they were selling 3,700K bulbs as 4,300K :) )
 

LostKiwi

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The overall light output from the bulb is probably 3700K. The actual light output from teh filament (before the glass envelope) is likely 3000K to 3500K. White vision bulbs have a blue coating which removes some of the lower wavelengths (blue filters remove yellow light) so the filtered light is 4300K - exactly as Philips said.

This is the relevant portion of the statement:
"WhiteVision bulbs provide a color temperature of up to 4300 Kelvin in dedicated areas of the beam pattern"

Their statement is therefore totally correct and honest.
 
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Submariner1

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The overall light output from the bulb is probably 3700K. The actual light output from teh filament (before the glass envelope) is likely 3000K to 3500K. White vision bulbs have a blue coating which removes some of the lower wavelengths (blue filters remove yellow light) so the filtered light is 4300K - exactly as Philips said.

This is the relevant portion of the statement:
"WhiteVision bulbs provide a color temperature of up to 4300 Kelvin in dedicated areas of the beam pattern"

Their statement is therefore totally correct and honest.

I agree the additional explanation is probably factually correct. But not to include that explanation in the marketing of a 4,300 K bulb is a tad "slippery".

Anyway I posted it, as I found it useful in selecting a "whiter rather than a more powerful" replacement.

The difficult part of the evaluation I think is how as the power (Lumens) increases, how the "perceptive" whiteness (Kelvins) appears to improve to the eye. Maybe thats just how my eyesight interprets it.
 

Craiglxviii

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The difficult part of the evaluation I think is how as the power (Lumens) increases, how the "perceptive" whiteness (Kelvins) appears to improve to the eye. Maybe thats just how my eyesight interprets it.

It isn't difficult at all. The lumen value increases as the colour temperature increases, that is moves from soft to warm to neutral to cold white. That is, the perceived luminous flux density at 2700K (for a given power input) will be around 20% less than a 4000K lamp of equal power input.
 

LostKiwi

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I agree the additional explanation is probably factually correct. But not to include that explanation in the marketing of a 4,300 K bulb is a tad "slippery".

Anyway I posted it, as I found it useful in selecting a "whiter rather than a more powerful" replacement.

The difficult part of the evaluation I think is how as the power (Lumens) increases, how the "perceptive" whiteness (Kelvins) appears to improve to the eye. Maybe thats just how my eyesight interprets it.
So given they have corrected their packaging to say 3700K how is it slippery?
 
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Submariner1

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So given they have corrected their packaging to say 3700K how is it slippery?
Buying online the marketing blurb says 4,300K and "intense white" and so does the tech data sheet on Philips website.
Only when you get the package do you find out its only 3,700k
OK "slippery" is too polite a term.
 
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Submariner1

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It isn't difficult at all. The lumen value increases as the colour temperature increases, that is moves from soft to warm to neutral to cold white. That is, the perceived luminous flux density at 2700K (for a given power input) will be around 20% less than a 4000K lamp of equal power input.

Oh well
I am totally confused by what you say, as thats pretty much the opposite Philips Technical said to me.

Basically they said the higher the Kelvin Rate the whiter/bluer its . I know that is true from photography.
They said the higher the Lumen output the more powerful and the more reach the beam will have.
(Assuming Lumens are a measure of the total quantity of visible light emitted by a source)

They also said for the same input power say in this case 55 watts, the higher the Kelvin rate is, then generally the lower the Lumen rate will be.
And if you look at their ranges and Osram's that seems to follow.

With my scant knowledge I was looking for the highest K value i.e. Whitest, but with a high Lumen no. ( for a powerful beam , which was at least higher than a std. bulb.
Then I thought ( and it was confirmed by Philips technical ) that would give me the whitest bulbs that had at least an equal or hopefully also a more powerful bulb.

your sentence "the perceived luminous flux density at 2700K (for a given power input) will be around 20% less than a 4000K lamp of equal power input" seems to indicate the complete opposite.
 
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Submariner1

Submariner1

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I give up.
Dont understand whats difficult.

Imagine you are going to buy a new Mercedes. You get an email saying there is a dealer contribution offer of £4,300. You check on MB's site and it shows for that car it is £4,300.
You sign the Order form and it shows £4,300. Dealer contribution.

But hey on the day you go to pick up the car and pay for it .... its only £3,700 :(

And that would be OK with you?
 

LostKiwi

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Dont understand whats difficult.
Likewise. You ordered them, they weren't what you expected. The packaging doesn't tie up with the website. You query it. They explain. You return them unopened if you aren't happy.

Simples.
 

Craiglxviii

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Right.

A lumen is a candela.steraradian, that is one candela projected through a solid angle of one radian.

The human eye is geared towards max sensitivity in sunlight. That is between 4000K and 6500K.

......... I give up.
 


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