Breakthrough deal

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Frontstep

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The point is, you don't know if you're right...but you sneer at those with differing views.

As a remainer I fervently hope we have a good result it would be stupid to wish otherwise...but only time will tell and I have no more a crystal ball than you do.


As I said it is not a view or an opinion we are either in competiton with other EU members or we are not,
you have the very very clear chance to distance yourself and have not taken it, why ?
 

M80

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Its no bad thing the government lost because it now puts the "deal" into sharp focus if Parliament votes against it we leave without a deal unless they can put Brexit into the long grass with delays.
The EU negotiators of course see the problems with that.

As you say, I think, the eu will see the potential to reverse the referendum decision by making sure the final deal is totally unacceptable to those that are now able to reject it.
A united force, not disunited farce, would be a greater advantage during these negotiations.
It plays into the hands of the remain camp and isn't democratic, in my view, as there has been a decision made to leave.

I do believe however that the people should be given another referendum to decide Brexit or no when the final deal is known, or better known at least. But on my principle this could only be announced following negotiations not during. I wouldn't trust our leader to do that though.

BTW I'm still for Brexit, in fact even more due to the insulting attitude of the eu bunch. It's just that I'm pro anti corruption and true democracy, so I dream on.
 

Frontstep

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There is nothing wrong with Parliament voting on the final deal so we have leave with the deal or leave with no deal.
This will help no end in Davis's meetings and focus attention.
Then we have the referendum vote respected and the rather obvious point that we can negotiate at out leisure.

It has to be noted that the EU needs us more than we need them just on a purely financial basis.
Then there is security we are streets ahead
 

davemercedes

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All I know is, well over twelve months down the line Mayhem is getting what she's being given - exactly as I forecast - to much pooh-poohing. I don't actually believe the forcing and losing of a vote will have any significant difference but it might make her and Davies reconsider their appallingly arrogant attitude to the parliament they claim to serve.
 

Frontstep

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Utter rubbish.

Again I present simple fact not opinion, I said and I quote;

"It has to be noted that the EU needs us more than we need them just on a purely financial basis"

The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back. In 2016 the UK government paid £13.1 billion to the EU budget, and EUspending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion. So the UK's 'net contribution' was estimated at about £8.6 billion.9 Nov 2017

Exports of goods and services to other EU countries were worth £240 billion in 2016, while exports from the rest of the EU to the UK were worth about £320billion.2 Nov 2017

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

Perhaps your fellow remoaner Nairac will tell me off again for quoting fact ...............................
 

flowrider

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So Parliament will vote on the deal, whoopie. We now have the EU procrastinating before time runs out and then giving us a bad deal knowing that Parliament will vote against it hence we leave the EU with no deal. Or The EU agrees a deal with the UK that they believe Parliament will vote in favour of, a good deal, and risk other countries leaving the EU. I wonder which option the EU will prefer. I agree that there should be a vote on the final deal but by us not Parliament.

Of course the only other option, which is now shelved, was that our Brexit negotiators agree a deal all by themselves, thank goodness that is no longer going to happen.
 

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So come the day of Parliament getting to decide May, or whoever is boss by then, announces the 2nd in / out referendum.
If the vote is in all deciding is done.
If the vote is again out then the Parliament vote is a foregone conclusion, in fact pointless.

The 'boss' saves any potential embarrassment and looks pro democracy.
 

Frosty149

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So come the day of Parliament getting to decide May, or whoever is boss by then, announces the 2nd in / out referendum.
If the vote is in all deciding is done.
If the vote is again out then the Parliament vote is a foregone conclusion, in fact pointless.

The 'boss' saves any potential embarrassment and looks pro democracy.
Either you, or I have misunderstood or misinterpreted what the future parliamentary vote is for, I fear.
I don’t believe that there will be a second bite at the remain or leave cherry?
 
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Yugguy

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I don't believe there will be another public referendum.

I do believe the negotiations will go right down to the wire.

As for reversing the decision completely, I don't think that is even legally possible, which is why a deal will be struck which works, as it will be in noone's interest for it to fail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42362507
 
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davemercedes

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I don't believe there will be another public referendum.

I do believe the negotiations will go right down to the wire.

As for reversing the decision completely, I don't think that is even legally possible, which is why a deal will be struck which works, as it will be in noone's interest for it to fail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42362507
But now that Mayhem has chipped in all those £-Billions of our money that Bumbling Boris bumbled about going to the NHS instead of the EU (sad really, both that promise and the NHS itself have now been thoroughly broken by this lot)... so I keep asking pro-Leave people what are the real and quantified benefits we are going to gain by leaving? Interestingly after all this time on tv and radio programs, over and over again I hear views such as "We didn't know that; They never told us about that; I don't understand that".

It's interesting that HM Gov paid for producing and distributing that useless information leaflet. So when Mayhem lost her majority by getting into bed with the DUP (quite an expensive liaison for all of us!) she highlighted the Northern Ireland/Border issue which until then had never been mentioned - NOT ONE WORD was contained in the "Information" leaflet!

Discarding a few semi-racial views and "Little Britain" views from some, I still really can't see any benefits. All see is further falls in the pound, rising prices, less jobs and "flat" earnings. The Boris and Gove act will continue to waffle but the hard facts will be felt in our pockets as Great Britain Ltd diminishes in stature and trade further.
 

mikestrivens

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But at least we will be free.
 

davemercedes

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But at least we will be free.
Hooray!!!
We'll be free from the EU within which we have enjoyed the most profitable 40 years in our commercial history!
- Apart from all the things we're already losing...
 
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Yugguy

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We won't end up a vassal state in the us of e.

I'd vote against that every time.
 

davemercedes

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We won't end up a vassal state in the us of e.

I'd vote against that every time.

Hmm, well. In three or four years, you'll know whether you can afford that.
- But if you feel so strongly about the EU, did you contact your MP or MEP to make your feelings known before the referendum joke? If you and others had done that maybe our politicians would have done what they are paid to do and made proper representation to change things - instead of which we're sneaking out the back door and I repeat, Mayhem will be bringing home exactly what she is given. She will proclaim that they did the best possible - yet another reason for all the arrogance and secrecy - we don't even know today what has been negotiated!
 

malcolm E53 AMG

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Watching the events of the last two weeks unfold I’m now convinced that the EU council, including Merkel and Macron (of course) have decided that it’s time to be sensible bearing in mind the fragile state of U.K. politics and short time scale left to reach a trade agreement since invoking article 50.

Nobody wants to preside over or be responsible for causing hardship on either of the channel that is of no benefit to the EU and could be damaging to Europe as a whole in these uncertain times

Since the catastrophic attempt by the Torys to gain a bigger majority at the last election May is struggling to hold her party together and no doubt this has had the unforeseen effect of helping Brexit talks after all who would want to deal with the unknown, you could even view the new EU position as accommodating lol

The EU stance on punishment seems to be over thank goodness it was counterproductive in my view and did make them look like playground bullies, we are all European just some more than others
 

Frontstep

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Hooray!!!
We'll be free from the EU within which we have enjoyed the most profitable 40 years in our commercial history!
- Apart from all the things we're already losing...

At the risk of being told off for posting fact the above statement is wildly incorrect and any student will tell you so,

*"Between 1870 and 1900, economic output per head of population in Britain and Ireland rose by 500 percent"

*" In 1950, British output per head was still 30 per cent ahead of the six founder members of the EEC, but within 50 years it had been overtaken by many European and several Asian countries"

The EU has suffocated so many of its members and yet has convinced so many of the opposite.

Yes a wiki post buts its near enough
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_United_Kingdom
 

Naraic

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Are you a petulant child? Do you need to be scolded or is this just some perversion? You post in a snide and sneering fashion...not telling you off, just as I see it. Anyone who has had the temerity to disagree with you has had this treatment. Is it reasonable?
 
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