2001 sprinter 313 egr and cat?

[josephrichardbeer]

just bought a 2001 sprinter luton 313 cdi on 120k. not owned a sprinter before and dont know these engines. noticed it was probly a bit slower than it should be (though still much faster than my transit) so started investigating.

thought this may be egr valve related but there doesnt seem to be one on this engine. was there one fitted as standard that has been removed or was there just none to start with? inlet manifold is clean as a whisle as a result though which is nice.

also noticed there is no cat on the van. goes from manifold to flex coupling (could this be where cat once was?) to a single side exit silencer is this normal or is it a mod? i know older (type 1) sprinters that definatly do have a cat.

found the source of my lack of power eventually. chuffing number 3 injector. black carbon buildup everywhere had hidden the noise when i looked over the van. now i've scraped it off you can hear it clearly soaking it in deisel now and ordered seat cutters and puller today. just hope the injector has survived

 

[gothic_merc]

Cocacola is good at soaking them. Ex merc tech told me this. Still a pig though


Jon

 

[josephrichardbeer]

Cheers for that. I don't like cocacola anyway so best place for it.

Any ideas on standard fitment of egr valve and exhaust cat

 

[gothic_merc]

Unfortunatly not sure on the egr cat. I have an s202 with the 2.2 cdi on and that has egr, probably a cat.

The injector will likely be difficult to get out, took me over half an hour when I did one a few weeks back. then another about 20 mins this week. unfortunately that where my issues started. just go slow and do carefully. I'm now off to put mine back together

Jon

 

[josephrichardbeer]

No sign of either on this one. Where would the egr be if there was one? Its not in the normal place at the start of the inlet manifold anyway. Assume there isnt one and never has been because everything is so squeeky clean in there.

For the injector is it likely that it will survive or should I just replace it as a matter of course? Trying to keep costs down as much as possible. Also is it worth reseating all 4 while am at it or could this lead to more problems if I don't get it exactly right? Got 4 stretch bolts and 4 copper washers on the way. Thing is I don't want to have to deal with the black goop stuff again any time soon!

 

[gothic_merc]

Just do the blowing one. Get engine warm as its the tar that bakes them on. I've never had an injector break on me. I used a slide hammer. Reseat the head and the injector. make sure its all clean then put injector back, attach fuel line then torque the bolts correctly. Don't over tighten is you risk damage to threads. careful with leak off pipes and fuel lines

I have just repaired thread on one and now and now have two leaky injectors

jon

 

[josephrichardbeer]

Ooo. That sounds sad. glad to know its unlikely ill need new injectors ( just checked the price!!!) Got told by someone that cheap pattern coppies can cause ecu problems and bad performance. Is this true?

Unfortunately the way that the sprinter mk2 bonnet/windscreen is positioned does not give you any access with a slide hammer to injector 3. (Might be able to do injector 1 and maybe 2 at a push.) So I have ordered the bosh/merc laser injector puller tool (at nearly £70 so it better work).

Just one more thing. What is the best way of stopping swarf /carbon deposits falling into the block when recutting the seats? Don't want to have to take the whole rocker cover off if at all possible.

I saw a trick with taking out a glowplug and connecting an airline to the hole but I don't have a compressor where I am at the moment and don't want to do a big journey with the injector chuffing this bad. Especially as I've just cleaned the whole lot out.

Is it possible to block the hole with chewing gum/ plastersene to pick up the bits and still be able to cut the seat effectively?

If compressor is the only good way then I may be able to rent/ borrow one

 

[turbopete]

i had a 2001 203 with the same engine and it DID have an EGR and 2 cats. rules around emissions etc may have been different for vans though

 

[josephrichardbeer]

Found a picture on the interweb of a 313cdi engine and it also appears to have no cat.

 

[gothic_merc]

Ooo. That sounds sad. glad to know its unlikely ill need new injectors ( just checked the price!!!) Got told by someone that cheap pattern coppies can cause ecu problems and bad performance. Is this true?

Unfortunately the way that the sprinter mk2 bonnet/windscreen is positioned does not give you any access with a slide hammer to injector 3. (Might be able to do injector 1 and maybe 2 at a push.) So I have ordered the bosh/merc laser injector puller tool (at nearly £70 so it better work).

Just one more thing. What is the best way of stopping swarf /carbon deposits falling into the block when recutting the seats? Don't want to have to take the whole rocker cover off if at all possible.

I saw a trick with taking out a glowplug and connecting an airline to the hole but I don't have a compressor where I am at the moment and don't want to do a big journey with the injector chuffing this bad. Especially as I've just cleaned the whole lot out.

Is it possible to block the hole with chewing gum/ plastersene to pick up the bits and still be able to cut the seat effectively?

If compressor is the only good way then I may be able to rent/ borrow one

My cutter has a protrusion that blocks the hole up. also used a drop of grease to catch any swarf or carbon. You are only just scraping the surface, I clean as much out before I start cutting.

I have just had my cover off which involves all injectors out. Unless you need to do work on the threads then you shouldn't need the cover off.

 

[josephrichardbeer]

Sounds good.

Its a laser one. Cost about £60 so should be up to it. Will have a look when it comes. As long as the hole is blocked then Greese should pick everything up I reckon. Sounds much better than taking the cover off. Also just read that glowplugs can be a buga to remove as well.

What did merc do wrong with these engines? Is it a lack of suitable slip compound on assembly or a materials comparability problem? Never had anything stuck in the block with v dubs or fords I owned. Although people do get crazy miles out of them so the problems must be solvable.

 

[gothic_merc]

Yeah you'll need the engine nice and hot and plenty of WD40 I think, Never removed a glow plug on one. My parts have just arrived so best I make a move and sort mine, keep me informed and there's plenty of nice people on here that advise so all good

 

[josephrichardbeer]

ere goes

got all me bits now. going to make a start on sorting this tomorrow. injectors have been soaking in diesel for last 3 days and most of the gunk has softened up nicely. will give it a clean before i start the engine to warm it up.

just wandering if i need to be very careful with removing the fuel lines from the rail to the injectors because of the potential pressure if it has just been run. how long, if at all, does the rail stay pressurised by the fuel pump after the van has been stopped. Haynes is not clear on this but warns that high pressure fuel jets can cause fatalities! very helpful.

 

[josephrichardbeer]

dead injector

just tested all four injectors using the leak off tube method and found that number 2 has stacked up about 6 inch of fuel while the rest (including the chuffing number 3) are fine. is it worth spending serious money on these or are cheap ones fine. or would a recon geninune be the best option? (at about the same price as a cheap one). i found prices that vary from £80 to £650 each!

 

[gothic_merc]

the fuel pressure drops quickly as the pump is cam driven. the pipes can bend and break though so be careful.

I cant say for injectors, all mine are ok, there are companies that recondition them so might be worth looking at them, I have a company local to me that does them.

 

[josephrichardbeer]

Injector 3 ( chuffing one) is now fixed. Came out using the slacken the nut and rev it til it goes bang method ( quite a big bang as it turned out!) so didn't have to use the puller. Worth being persistent with this method. I was just about to give up and resort to the puller when it came so the injector has survived

Did have to quite significantly modify the laser seat cutter tool to fit the barrel which was strange. It had a shoulder in the wrong place so that it couldn't reach the end of the chamber. Think this must be a manufacturing fault as it is supposed to fit this vehicle.

Just need to extract and replace number 2 now ( which failed the leak off test. Will try and find a recon bosch tomoro.

 

[josephrichardbeer]

Fixed

Got a recon Bosch injector in there and running perfect now. Van purrs luvly and is supprisingly fast for a Luton. Think feked injectors must nave been eating about a third of my horsepower.

Got a few tips for anyone else doing this.

Don't put it off! Black carbon buildup is a pig to deal with and it makes so much improvement to the power and probly mpg as well so it don't pay to wait

Scraped as much of the 'black death' off as u can with a screwdriver/ wire brush then soak in diesel for a few days. This softens off what's left nicley.

Wynnes egr cleaner in an aerosol can is brilliant for melting any tarry crap that's left and cleaning injectors and seats.

Laser injextir seat cutter tool may need some modification to fit some engines! Put a blob of greese on the cutting edge to catch the swarf while ur cutting.


Loosening the injector hold down bolt and revving does work very well for extracting but make sure engine is warm first and be persistent. It will go just as ur about to give up.

Thanks for the help