ABS and ESP unavailable

[Submariner1]

Interestingly, this is wheel speed with ignition on:



This is wheel speed with ignition off:

If it helps ...
mine with engine running but the car stationery, mbII said every wheel was at 0.4mph, call me stupid but I expected 0.00mph.
The mobilo guy didnt seem at all fussed, but checked with the remote small chunky laptop ... Xentry?? or some thing and said they are all at 0.6kph.
I cant really remember, but I think he said something like its a tolerance, so when you come to a full stop it doesnt kick in the abs, ... think you are skidding.??

He also got it one time with 3 wheels stopped and one doing 270kph ... when he went to look at the ABR controller it was off line! No comms

 

[Submariner1]

Live data shows this with key on:


12.0 with ignition position 1

Thats the kind of number I got with the first defective battery and Malcolm said on SLs, S and CLs it was just not enough!
It was all way above my head, but as He really seemed to know what he was talking about, I just trusted
him.
.... net result, eventually the battery failed the test, and I got a new one and all the fault codes dissapeared.

I agree with him, unless you have a strong battery all the test results “can” be garbage.

 

[Submariner1]

my park brake also went a bit mental 2 weeks ago ! had a few red messages, it then released itself as I got in the car and turned the key, when I reapplied it wouldn't auto release !!! did it manually and I drove off, no more agro. Then shorty after I had pad wear indicator come on. This I believe is real, as I knew they were getting low. And its been on each journey since.


The other odd thing was when I parked up when I got back home a few hours later (after it released itself when I turned the key on), was that it wouldn't apply the park brake. I had to try again and this time it worked.


At the time I thought it was the pad wear upsetting stuff, but with you guys having issues its probably not pad wear but something failing?

My problem is getting my head around, how all these interacting bits can throw up faUlts with a other bit ...
Misleading you to think when I got this

My Parking. Rake switch might have gone.
But then when you see the interconnectivity in this ... I assume Yours is similar

Honestly it could just about be anything

 

[Submariner1]

Maybe sticking motor in the control unit. Have you had it off/apart at all?

I checked the codes on mine. FL RL and RR codes. Actual values for wheel speeds show 0.6kmh for all 4 wheels.

No idea which is dead. Suppose I will keep driving it until it gets worse.

Re my bad news ... i.e. that all three that were identified suspect by the MBII, Apparently according to STAR at Main Dealers and Mobilio techy are knackered.
They change them on Monday. So will know for sure then.

Just wondered were all three if yours faulty?
Still cant get my head around, how 3 blew out at the same time (well over a 4 week period) :-/

 

[rapide]

Re my bad news ... i.e. that all three that were identified suspect by the MBII, Apparently according to STAR at Main Dealers and Mobilio techy are knackered.
They change them on Monday. So will know for sure then.

Just wondered were all three if yours faulty?
Still cant get my head around, how 3 blew out at the same time (well over a 4 week period) :-/

mine did this cost me £900 for new ecu! ok after that still dont know why! perhaps yours sniffed to much nitro methane at santa pod!

 

[alexanderfoti]

mine did this cost me £900 for new ecu! ok after that still dont know why! perhaps yours sniffed to much nitro methane at santa pod!

Which ecu, the ABR ecu or the ESP control module?

 

[rapide]

Which ecu, the ABR ecu or the ESP control module?

its was 9 years ago but under the bonnet black plastic cover to rear of engine bay passenger side unscrew top and there was slot in modules, quite large perhaps 15cm sq 4cm thick! the one that controlled anti wheel spin ( esr / esp) and abs . star stated that there was no electrical feed whatsoever to this unit! but there was is was just dead! they suggested ( merc) an energy spike ! from 12volt to what i dont know but unit changed star etc all good sold to my brother in law 3 yrs ago 121k on clock still going strong and he drives like a lunatic! he tells me he has had a big yellow triangle light up ( yes he reads the hand book) when pulling away so the esr/esp? is still ok!

 

[Submariner1]

Which ecu, the ABR ecu or the ESP control module?

Hi Alex
When the mobilo guy identified the poor earth. He pointed to the front of the ABS block (aluminium with all the brake pipes entering it), where 3? Bolts hold on a rectangular black plastic control unit and a big connector with a lever clip.
He refered to that as the ABR Controller.

On the Star reports, all fault codes centred around the ABR - Adaptive Brake.

Other modules stated implausible wheel speed signals from N47-5 ( ESP Controller)
So is the ABR also known as the ESP Controller, and more specifically whats the black part in my photo?

You know what I am thinking ... if there is an ABR and also an ESP Controller ... when the engineer said remake the ABR earthing ground .. did the garage get the wrong one and remake the earth on a different items, and then change all these sensors for nothing :-/

Awaiting the call to say they fixed my car as we speak.

 

[alexanderfoti]

its was 9 years ago but under the bonnet black plastic cover to rear of engine bay passenger side unscrew top and there was slot in modules, quite large perhaps 15cm sq 4cm thick! the one that controlled anti wheel spin ( esr / esp) and abs . star stated that there was no electrical feed whatsoever to this unit! but there was is was just dead! they suggested ( merc) an energy spike ! from 12volt to what i dont know but unit changed star etc all good sold to my brother in law 3 yrs ago 121k on clock still going strong and he drives like a lunatic! he tells me he has had a big yellow triangle light up ( yes he reads the hand book) when pulling away so the esr/esp? is still ok!

Ah It sounds as though they replaced the ESP ecu due to no communication. That makes sense as it died completely.

 

[alexanderfoti]

Hi Alex
When the mobilo guy identified the poor earth. He pointed to the front of the ABS block (aluminium with all the brake pipes entering it), where 3? Bolts hold on a rectangular black plastic control unit and a big connector with a lever clip.
He refered to that as the ABR Controller.
View attachment 43147
On the Star reports it all centered around the ABR.
Other modules stated implausible wheel speed signals from N47-5 ( ESP Controller)
So is the ABR also known as the ESP Controller, and more specifically whats the black part in my photo.

You know what I am thinking ... if there is an ABR and also an ESP Controller ... when the engineer said remake the ABR earthing ground .. did the garage get the wrong one and change all these sensors for nothing :-/

Awaiting the call to say they fixed my car as we speak.

The black part is the ABS/ABR ecu

I will need to check where the ESP ecu is.

The wheel speed sensors are reluctance based, so give a pulse of voltage for each degree or so of movement (rather than the square wave of a hall effect sensor) So the question is, how does the ecu determine that the values are implausible.

Does it compare the wheel speeds with each other?

or

Does it analyse the signal against a known format and decide if its too far out?

If the former, its hard for the ecu to tell if it has no reference point

The latter, then the sensors have all failed at the same time.

 

[Botus]

its normal for these to fail its exactly like the ones on two of my bikes

ones been repaired twice (1st time 8 years old just went again at 10) the newer bike had a new one fitted at 7 years old

http://www.ecutesting.com/abs_pumps_modules.html

my bike

"This ABS pump/module is a very common problem for the R1200GS/GT causing the ABS warning light to remain on. Common fault codes include:
5DF0 - Pump motor
5DF1 - ABS pump/ECU failure

had both these fault codes both times. the last failure brought up a can bus fault I'd never seen before as well. Something has just caused the same module on my k1300 to go mental as I said earlier, with
2786 - Front-wheel speed from ABS implausible
if I turn off traction control the bike comes out of horrendous limp mode

 

[Submariner1]

The black part is the ABS/ABR ecu

I will need to check where the ESP ecu is.

The wheel speed sensors are reluctance based, so give a pulse of voltage for each degree or so of movement (rather than the square wave of a hall effect sensor) So the question is, how does the ecu determine that the values are implausible.

Does it compare the wheel speeds with each other?

or

Does it analyse the signal against a known format and decide if its too far out?

If the former, its hard for the ecu to tell if it has no reference point

The latter, then the sensors have all failed at the same time.

Thanks Alex
Good to learn about these, as even if my next car is 4 or 5 years, one could hit this again.

If the controller does compare one signal against the others?, this could be why MB state all should be changed at the same time. That would make sense. I.e. after “the fix” the controller is comparing 3 degraded sensors against the new one at 100% signal efficiency..
Leaving one old sensor, that say is at 10% efficiency (albeit within tolerance, and works fine with other old sensors i.e one is at 11%, the other at 12%, and the 3rd at 10%) introducing one that is at 100% efficiency might throw it , as the deviation is just too great.

 

[LostKiwi]

An implausible signal is one that appears wrong given other data received. i.e. if there is signal from 3 of 4 wheels and the brakes weren't operated then the 4th wheel would be 'implausible' as the electronics can see no reason for there not to be a signal from that wheel. On a voltage based system this could also mean one wheel is generating a significantly lower voltage than the rest so this could indeed be the reasoning behind replacing pairs of sensors together.

 

[ajlsl600]

****** tech....hope yr soon sorted , it took me two weeks to get on top of my recent dramas ,and the car has been wrapped up all winter on 2 cteks. cant win with this modern stuff , thinking on older classic or kit car for sunny weekends think a lot less bother . in my limited experience , even the dealers dont understand half the time and you pay while they learn . indie or do it yrself only way out for me .

 

[Submariner1]

****** tech....hope yr soon sorted , it took me two weeks to get on top of my recent dramas ,and the car has been wrapped up all winter on 2 cteks. cant win with this modern stuff , thinking on older classic or kit car for sunny weekends think a lot less bother . in my limited experience , even the dealers dont understand half the time and you pay while they learn . indie or do it yrself only way out for me .

Apparently mine is all fixed!
Their top techy will explain what was done .. the manager believed all 4 sensors were replaced.
We will see tomorrow
ta da!

 

[ajlsl600]

grand , always good when dash does not light up.......

 

[Botus]

Plugged my diagnostics on today..

actually forgot to search fully for wheels speed sensor readings. I found something on ESP sensors but that was more about g and angle stuff.

In ABR (whats that supposed to mean?) found some guff, but nothing I noticed related to what I wanted. But I did find this nugget of codswallop stored as a fault I've never seen before...

5995 Hydraulic system of brake was overheated

which is really interesting as I drove a whole 4 foot on stone cold discs waiting to see if the park brake could be bothered to remember how to work last week (before releasing manually). And since the pad warning is on (and one end I know needed pads around now) I've been attempting to not use them much

so just to double check the rears didn't stay on and get hot .... I see the discs look like I need to go for a drive to clean them up rather than ones that tried to fall off at melting point.

 

[alexanderfoti]

ABR is Adaptive Brake

I found an interesting code on mine "rapid fluid loss, check system for leaks". It was accurate as I had a leak in a rear brake line! I was impressed with that one.

 

[alexanderfoti]

So, I haven't changed any sensors yet, but it tends to give this message when stopping at services. I suspect head is affecting one of the sensors.

The most recent occurence had the speedometer show 100mph at a standstill, so, which sensor is used for the speedometer?

 

[Botus]

4 new sensors fitted today... the originals almost look like new

not sure which end is which, or which was left and right as I didn't put them on

the longer ones, part number A221 540 0317 readings were
373 k ohm and 402 k ohm

of the two short ones, part number A221 540 0117 readings were
393 k ohm and 390 k ohm


part numbers they were replaced with was
A221 905 7100 (front)
A221 905 6000 (rear)

rather perversely I see in USA, same fronts at 65 dollars ! and
A221-905-73-00-80 / Remanufactured Rpm, listed for the rears
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