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anti diesel idea not working.....

Discussion in 'Motoring Related Discussion' started by turbopete, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    What it’s really shown is how good at marketing Musk is. They’ve developed a luxury EV which is being sold as a competitor to IC cars where range isn’t really a factor. A study of sales patterns shows most Tesla’s are involved in city commutes or other driving patterns with easy rapid charge availability.

    They’ve also developed an entry level EV which they have MASSIVE problems with. This was supposed to be their bread and butter... They just can’t build the Model 3 (hitting 10% of target due to chronic parts and line problems) and have very deep plant problems in addition. Tesla Inc has a nett-loss burn rate of $1bn p.a. as of last month’s data. It’s not a viable business in its own right.

    In all seriousness, look at Nissan. I know their EVs are boring but they’re the biggest by volume and the furthest ahead by development of the Big 5 in EV. Leaf Gen. 2 launches soon and has already taken 10,000 units in pre- orders just for Europe. That’s incredible when you consider Leaf sells around 20,000 per year currently. Nissan reckon they can shift 60-70k pa of them which puts it into Mini One territory (or Tesla’s entire plant capacity). That’s progress.

    In other news, e-Golf is making big strides too. Watch this space.
     
  2. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    I outlined earlier why this won’t happen.
     
  3. keefysher

    keefysher Senior Member

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    I don't subscribe to the yoof being innovative and the older be worn out. I was a yoof once, but always valued the knowledge and experience of my forebears and questioned my 'innovations' in open forum rather than waste effort reinventing the wheel.

    I was at a CPD lecture on Weds evening, in an industry I have only spent 9% of my working life in. I did deliver the biggest step change in operational and safety performance in the history of that industry and was cited as visionary by the CEO on being presented a National Safety Award. Subsequently that industry has just celebrated 10 years of fatality free operations, something I addresses as the then run rate was 17 per annum. I did that in 30 months. I also undertook the response and subsequent non repeat of a watershed accident in that industry that 100s of thousands use to get to and from work every day. Some of my National Award winning 'innovations' were adaptations from other industries I've worked in, laws of physics haven't changed, so look to first principals, first.

    There was an item on innovation introduced over the same period, notwithstanding some of my innovations, the latest from the brightest of the yoofs was something I introduced into a totally different industry in October 1978. Another item was cost cutting requirements and reduced access for major asset renewal works, that was being trumpeted by the bright young things as the way forward. Only to be shot down by retired former colleagues who pointed out prior to commercial engineering, was the default way of working for 50 years. The expression 'back to the future' was mentioned to the bright young things.

    True innovation is few and far between. Reinvention of the wheel is common place. Knowledge transfer across sectors often delivers 'innovation' in the tired minds of brow beaten people who are led by self serving donkeys as so many CEOs currently are.

    Interestingly the rate of innovation accelerated during WWII and into the 1970s, and has since slowed considerably. Ask yourself what new materials have been invented in the past 2 decades. New applications may have been found.

    For Carl, your body armour is the result of the failure of Kevlar in dynamic mechanical traction development for example. I spent £24m failing on that one. Should have gone for Dyneema, but that failed initial evaluation. Hey ho such is life :eek:
     
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  4. C350Carl

    C350Carl Senior Member

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    I didn’t mean the old were worn out. I was referring mainly to the oil v other form of fuel for cars.

    OPEC have been one of the biggest blocks to other tech for vehicles.

    As an example when shale oil became a viable option they flooded the market with crude to reduce the cost per barrel below what was economical to make Shale viable.

    It surprises me that the Middle East don’t invest in solar energy. They have vast expanses of desert in which they could place solar farms. Then store and sell on the generated power. But they don’t because at the moment be gravy train of crude is still good and Solar takes a lot of investment.
     
  5. keefysher

    keefysher Senior Member

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    Interesting you mention the ME. Check out Masdar, the sovereign wealth fund vehicle of the Abu Dhabi Emirate. Masdar City in the Abu Dhabi Emirate is primarily solar powered and a 'future city' test bed. Largest investor in the Thames Gateway wind farm.

    A few of the ME current oil producers are investing in the future beyond oil. Look at UAE and Dubai. Qatar investing all over the place as well as most of Londinium.

    Shell recently acquired a renewable energy business and have stated they want to get into electrical energy generation.

    The first solar pv panels were produced by Sharp in the late 1950's. Look at the door on your utility meter cupboards/lockers in your house to see when 'smart metering' was developed, you'll be pleasantly surprised!!

    In Spain, where there is plentiful sun for solar PV, you are penalised if you install solar for every KWh you produce, unlike here where you are rewarded. Have Solar PV on my house, generate 3x what we consume. The secret is changing the way we use power, only use electrical load like washing machine and dishwasher whilst generating, change white goods to ultra high efficiency when life expired, LED bulbs etc. Biggest challenge is human resistance to change.

    Tidal for electrical energy generation has the potential to delver 200x predicted future need. But is a direct extinctor for Oil & Gas, so is struggling to make headway. The tide goes one way, then the other 24/7. Open Hydro has 3 demonstrator sites currently. Nova Scotia is supplied from 1. Again first principles, although the yoof at Durham & Cork universities make the control system too complex. The mechanical bit is on well known subsea principles of 'it's going down and staying down' as recovery to surface is too expensive.

    Deep water offshore wind with 15Mw turbines is not far away. Currently 5Mw is available. There is a 15Mw turbine nacelle on a test rig ooop north currently. Built by a nuclear terrorist neighbour that also makes phones & tablets. At the same test facility is the 100mt long blades for that scale of windmill. Those are right proper bits of kit, based on rotating machine tech from the industrial revolution. The nacelle has a mass of 450tonnes, on a pile 140mts above sea in 80mts of water. Height at tip of 'top' blade from sea is 240mts. The objective of deep water is the wind volume is constant. Interesting stuff. A major energy player tried to take out their competition, but got side tracked with an acquisition are are currently bleeding out, whilst the other competitors are going from strength to strength.

    Always good discussions on here even if we go off thread!!
     
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  6. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    France? ;)
     
  7. keefysher

    keefysher Senior Member

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    non o_O
     
  8. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    Well you said “nuclear terrorist” so it’s either non or nyet... tovarisch!
     
  9. keefysher

    keefysher Senior Member

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    Your local BBC news show will help :p

    Non Big Red Button on desk is another clue :p
     
  10. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    I avoid the Beeb, I have this thing about accuracy ;)
     
  11. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    Btw. Impressive pylons on them thar turbines!!
     
  12. keefysher

    keefysher Senior Member

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    The floating turbines recently brought on stream offshore Jockland are quite impressive too. Development of the Statoil HyWind demonstrator. Evolved from platform leg. I was in discussion on using marine aggregate as ballast in a recycle scenario with Statoil. Use the marine aggregate from the offshore site. They went for Iron Ore due to density.

    The rate and scale of wind turbine deployment is a classic example of getting on with it despite the naysayers. The price per unit generated has plummeted. Needs a shot across the bows for politicians to make decisions at pace, not on election cycles and we'd have energy security much quicker then fcuk the rest of the world. It really isn't complicated. Tidal, not the lagoon, nuclear, wind, solar in that order, jfdi as we say :shock:
     
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  13. C350Carl

    C350Carl Senior Member

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    This was sort of the point I was making. We are resistant to change by nature. I see it in my job currently. People don’t want to get out of their comfort zones as that means they have to actually do some work.

    I currently live in the Middle East and although there are some sites like you mention it surprises me more isn’t being done. There are a few car parks around where they have turned the parking spot shades into solar panels to generate power. This seems to only be at hospitals though. Given the ME’s love of ‘flashy lights’ I’d have thought Solar energy would be more widespread.

    Thank you for the info though. It’s been a real eye opener as I wasn’t aware of a lot of what you have posted.

    I vaguely knew about tidal power having seen something on it up in Scotland before.

    Interestingly this year was Britain developed more than 75% of the electricity from renewable sources (mainly offshore wind) than coal sources. The biggest stumbling block at the moment for Britain is Gas I believe.

    Was surprised about being penalised in Spain though!
     
  14. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    “We’ve always done it this way” I hear quite often...

    The issue though is that it isn’t always or even usually clear that revolutionary & transformational when it comes to tech is better. Often it isn’t (more often than not) and often it needs many different factors to come together at the right time and each with the right support to make it work.
     
  15. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    If they got clever with the big offshore wind farms they could integrate them with tidal.
     
  16. keefysher

    keefysher Senior Member

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    If they got their collective arses in gear there would be no need for offshore wind, just tidal. Perversely wind turbines are designed with a life of 25 years as currently installed. The bigger 15Mw are longer life. Piles have a longer life, but I'm unsure if nacelle change was a factor in thinking at that time. Bit like O&G where they leave the legs behind when extraction ends.

    Interested to hear understanding of tidal, as a lot has been focussed on wave, not tidal. Polaris the floating sausage being the most visible I guess. There have been underwater turbines that failed to attract investment. Floating discs where the dot com backer pulled out recently, possibly as based near Glastonbury he smoked something.
     
  17. Yugguy

    Yugguy Senior Member

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    What's apparent with all of these innovations is that they will only progress when there is a will to do so.
     
  18. 3146bj

    3146bj Senior Member

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    Not quite. They only progress when they are made financially viable by subsidies from Governments who raise the funding by taxing, directly or indirectly, less expensive forms of generation, e.g. coal fired or nuclear. When they do go ahead, we get power blackouts when the wind doesn't blow or the sun shine and there is insufficient base load generation. Ask South Australia what happens when they cannot draw base load power from the other State systems.

    Note also that solar and wind generate, on average, only about 23% of their nameplate capacity compared with 95-98% for 40 year old coal fired systems. Energy storage systems cannot provide the backup storage needed.

    Use the alternatives when they are financially self supporting. Don't cook the numbers and penalise the users as has been done in Australia. Electricity costs have doubled in the last couple of years and the power generated by renewables in practice is less than 5%. We have gone from the cheapest electricity in the OECD to the most expensive - more expensive even than Denmark, and we wonder why businesses are going bust!
     
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  19. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    We only handle monopoly supplies like this, in the real world you develop a better system then the customer comes to you.
    Susidies ie our cash is flushed around pet areas till some sticks.
    Billions of pounds has been siphoned out often from the poorest who struggle to pay their energy bills and in return we get mountains of specious figures to try to justify it.
     
  20. C350Carl

    C350Carl Senior Member

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    Solar panels require light, not sunshine, hence the panels on people’s house in the UK still generate power when it’s cloudy or raining etc

    The problem with Australia I believe was the inability to store excess power in any meaningful way. Hence Tesla built the 129MWH battery for them.

    Wind this year generated more electricity than coal for 75% of the year (263 days)

    Solar generated more electricity than coal for 180 days

    I total renewables generated more than 3 times the electricity than coal this year.

    Source here.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/28/renewables-power-coal-2017-uk-figures
     

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