Bacon-bonce ideas on new cars

[turbopete]

Our Cmax has cornering lights but I've actually got used to them and can see an advantage.

id be curious to know what their advantage is? as I don't see them being much use at all at above town speeds and if they WERE id imagine there would be even MORE idiots driving around with their front foglights on!

 

[turbopete]

Yep, £1150 to replace the headlamp unit im told plus the recoding to the car

how can that level of cost be justified in ANY headlamp? they must only cost about a fiver to make, in the volumes theyre made in!!!

 

[Craiglxviii]

I know ive said this before BUT I know of NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON that has EVER been asked what they want to be introduced on their car, and NOT ONE PERSON that would have ASKED for cornering/adaptive lights!! likewise ABS/Traction control (ive heard more people COMPLAIN about the latter, especially off road types/farmers who by 4x4s etc to do a JOB) bleepers for the drivers seat belt not being fastened, DRLs, I could probably go on....

We have around 50 customers in every month for a day- long jolly to ask what features & content they want on the cars. Customer Clinic it’s called. Also email questionnaires, quick questions during services etc all feed into the design of cars. Every carmaker does it in every country they sell cars into.

 

[turbopete]

nope, never come across ANYONE who has had ANY of that!!!

 

[EmilysDad]

....

As with everything they’re not introduced by the carmakers “just because” but because customers have asked for that specific content to be introduced.

I agree with Pete

 

[Craiglxviii]

how can that level of cost be justified in ANY headlamp? they must only cost about a fiver to make, in the volumes theyre made in!!!

A) because it’s what the market will stand.
B) surprisingly they are MUCH more expensive than that. Let’s just say a significant fraction of the retail price. Put it this way, rule of thumb- a car set of lamps nowadays is around the same cost as the engine (and around 70% of the cost of a car set of seats).

 

[Craiglxviii]

nope, never come across ANYONE who has had ANY of that!!!

Until I started this job, neither had I. Surprised me too.

 

[geraldrobins]

id be curious to know what their advantage is? as I don't see them being much use at all at above town speeds and if they WERE id imagine there would be even MORE idiots driving around with their front foglights on!

You get visibility at a junction sooner when changing direction. And unlike foglights you don't need them all on the time. This is just my opinion but I don't think I would pay good money to have them as an extra.

 

[turbopete]

A) because it’s what the market will stand.
B) surprisingly they are MUCH more expensive than that. Let’s just say a significant fraction of the retail price. Put it this way, rule of thumb- a car set of lamps nowadays is around the same cost as the engine (and around 70% of the cost of a car set of seats).

I appreciate it being what the market will stand (not from me it wont as if any lamp is that pricey I wont be buying the car) and the 'fiver' thing was fairly tongue in cheek, but as car lamps are a few bits of (shaped, admittedly for beam projection etc) plastic, a few bulbs/LEDs and a tiny motor (or 2) in each side, how on EARTH can they cost more or less what an engine does??? ignoring what the market will stand, are you saying that I should be able to pick up an engine for my car for a grand????? coz that's about what replacement lights would cost all round!!! and if they cost about the same to make......

 

[Craiglxviii]

I appreciate it being what the market will stand (not from me it wont as if any lamp is that pricey I wont be buying the car) and the 'fiver' thing was fairly tongue in cheek, but as car lamps are a few bits of (shaped, admittedly for beam projection etc) plastic, a few bulbs/LEDs and a tiny motor (or 2) in each side, how on EARTH can they cost more or less what an engine does??? ignoring what the market will stand, are you saying that I should be able to pick up an engine for my car for a grand????? coz that's about what replacement lights would cost all round!!! and if they cost about the same to make......

Dependent on the engine of course... and you’re saying that. I just won’t disagree with you. can’t say any more on that subject.

 

[Yugguy]

I very much question the point of illuminating fogs on corners. My headlights spread enough to the sides, I've never percieved an issue that needed fixing.

Yet another 'solution' for which there never was a problem.

On my estate there is a road that has multiple bends to slow drivers down. Watching a VAG car come towards you is hilarious as their fogs blink left, right, left, right.

 

[d215yq]

I understand they ask people about what they want in cars but surely they would ask for gadgets/safety. I can't believe one person, without a very loaded question, would have ever said they wanted cornering lights, adaptive lights etc. The majority of people don't have that much of a deep understanding about driving in the first place.

To be honest the ergonomics of any new cars I've driven are terrible, and the two mercs for being more complicated were by far the worst (a W212 and whatever the newest 2017 e class is). Not only all the nonsense light switches but the speedo now only tracks the outside of the gauge, so as I'm tall when the speedo is vertical (motorway speed) the steering wheel blocks it completely so I had no idea how to view it (Well after playing with it for 20 minutes I got the central screen that is blocking where the speedo should be to stop showing me pictures of cars and other such nonsense icons and to display the speed!

When I first sat in the newest e class it took me 5 minutes to understand just the basics of the gear change. Thought I had sorted but right next to indicator is the speed limiter so hit that on at 15mph by accident when trying to indicate. Then it wouldnt go above 15 until kickdown was put and then obviously flew. While I was struggling with all this in town a lorry was rather impatient behind and fiddling with it to be able to get above 15mph (didnt know the kickdown trick the first time it happened) almost missed a red light. First time I've almost crashed in last 3 years.

It's clearly designed by "customer feedback" rather than engineers/ergonomic experts, but we don't need them any more, do we? Despite all this bizarre technology (even opening the electric windows there is a delay for the computer to check whether it actually wants to do that (Why??) the comand system is not touch screen even a base model Skoda has and the comand has one of the most convoluted ways of entering the address/even changing radio was difficult. Quite frankly I could work GPS/adjust music on my phone safer than using the car system.

Went back to my base model W124 I have and so nice that every switch actually is a physical connection and not a button so it does what you want when you want. Also so nice to have one indicator stick exactly where it is comfiest allowing driving with one hand and it's all there where you need it and a 5yr old could understand it. Only thing I would really want to automate are the gears (it's a manual) and give it the option of a flick of the wiper (you have to turn it on and off for one wipe). The headlights are also rubbish but more powerful bulbs would do the trick there, no adaptive nonsesne required. The rest of it is just fine, my favourite being the driver's manual mirror adjust is easier than an electric one and you can reach it so they only put an electric one for the passenger side. No "feedback committee" would come up with that idea, just common sense on what is most convenient for the driver.

 

[EmilysDad]

...... Watching a VAG car come towards you is hilarious as their fogs blink left, right, left, right.

It's not just VAG

 

[EmilysDad]

....

When I first sat in the newest e class it took me 5 minutes to understand just the basics of the gear change ...

My mate had the same problem when I lent him my car. I found it first time ..... it was never going to very far away if it wasn't in the middle. Cars used to have column changes 50 & 60 years ago

the comand system is not touch screen even a base model Skoda has ....

But I don't want to have to swipe a touch screen when I'm driving, I want a switch or button ...... like you said you were very happy with in your W124

 

[Craiglxviii]

My mate had the same problem when I lent him my car. I found it first time ..... it was never going to very far away if it wasn't in the middle. Cars used to have column changes 50 & 60 years ago


the comand system is not touch screen even a base model Skoda has ....

But I don't want to have to swipe a touch screen when I'm driving, I want a switch or button ...... like you said you were very happy with in your W124 [/QUOTE]

Column change is very much horses for courses. I have both that and stick and have no feeling either way. They both work.

Adaptive lights for me are the best thing ever. Even more with moving black spot. That’s superb, if you’ve not driven one you won’t understand. Truly excellent performance.

As to touchscreen, for cars it is less reliable (less precise) and more expensive than a twiddly knob. The screen smears easily with grease and due to verticsl position often with glass/ pano roof that then catches the light. Twiddly joyknob thingy works just as well and does away with the quality issues.

 

[LostKiwi]

I very much question the point of illuminating fogs on corners. My headlights spread enough to the sides, I've never percieved an issue that needed fixing.

Yet another 'solution' for which there never was a problem.

On my estate there is a road that has multiple bends to slow drivers down. Watching a VAG car come towards you is hilarious as their fogs blink left, right, left, right.

Totally agree.
All it required was better designed headlights with a wider beam spread close to the vehicle.
The only time I have wanted more light than the headlights provide is when off roading in a Defender where the area immediately in front and to the sides can be in pitch blackness due to the terrain, but thats a pretty extreme situation!

 

[EmilysDad]

....

Column change is very much horses for courses. I have both that and stick and have no feeling either way. ....

Likewise .....

 

[Craiglxviii]

Totally agree.
All it required was better designed headlights with a wider beam spread close to the vehicle.
The only time I have wanted more light than the headlights provide is when off roading in a Defender where the area immediately in front and to the sides can be in pitch blackness due to the terrain, but thats a pretty extreme situation!

Trouble there is due to headlamp brightness and beam pattern regs, it prevents them from throwing light to the sides. So, another lamp is needed.

And, I keep on repeating, if the customers didn’t ask for them the tech content wouldn’t appear... the OEMs don’t want to add cost to their cars!

 

[ajlsl600]

think they have run out of ways to make gadgets simple. or its deliberate so only dealers can fix em , anyone who has the sl ,how thick are the damn books now .about 2 inches, there are still features on mine i have not fully worked out, and as i have had the car about three yrs now i doubt i will ever bother .start point squirt.press .stop

 

[d215yq]

My mate had the same problem when I lent him my car. I found it first time ..... it was never going to very far away if it wasn't in the middle. Cars used to have column changes 50 & 60 years ago


But I don't want to have to swipe a touch screen when I'm driving, I want a switch or button ...... like you said you were very happy with in your W124

I found it alright, it's just I wanted to actually know what does what before getting in so I knew how the manual overrides/gear changes worked in case I needed to know. It wasn't it's position that was the problem, more it is just a button that doesn't move and puts it in a computer mode displayed on the dash (difficult to see).

As for the touchscreen, I want one for GPS becuse that works best for such complicated inputs and GPS is a computer anyway so may as well use a computer interface. I want physical switches for everything mechanical/electrical!

I'm 50/50 on incorporating a stereo into a touchscreen GPS. When done well (i.e. seperate from the main cockipt display and with a sensible layout it worked very well). The comand system not so easy. The only new car I had that did this well was a Citroen C3. In fact of all the new stuff I've driven I'd go for a C3 over anything else. Compared to the VAG rubbish I normally get it was so nice to have a car configured for smooth, cpomfortable ride, that actually got 60+mpg in real world and not 45, not too clever for it's own good. Nicer place to be and sensibly laid out with a bit of flair. Wrong badge but probably why over here where that doesn't matter every third car is a Citroen, I believe they are cheap end of market too.