Bankers Trust (they should be Trussed Up!)

[davemercedes]

We've had a few posts about the reasons for mistrusting bankers. I've been repeatedly dumbstruck to think that if someone "ordinary" steals £1000 he/she is liable to be sent down but banks commit crimes worth squillions and then they can negotiate a fine with no criminal process!
- But why?

Here's the latest one, fortunately not one of ours but it's just another astounding scam:

Deutsche Bank fined for $10 billion sham Russian trades

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-deutsche-mirrortrade-probe-idUSKBN15F1GT

In summary, they organized $10 billion in sham trades that could have been used to launder money out of Russia. They got caught and have now "agreed" to pay a fine of $630M. No criminal charges then? -Naaah.
- Moreover a cost of $630m leaves a lot of room for them to still turn a profit!

The next time they catch a UK bank at it (going by recent history it shouldn't be too long!) I wonder if Theresa May will jump up to deal with the terrible "injustice" affecting those "hard working ordinary people"she says she's looking out for?

 

[prwales]

Some people are above the law because of the financial power they wield. This is crude marxism, power accrues to those with the most money and the will to use it; banks buy or rent politicians, judges, newspaper proprietors, policemen and whoever else they need or require to protect their profits

 

[Alfie]

Some people are above the law because of the financial power they wield. This is crude marxism, power accrues to those with the most money and the will to use it; banks buy or rent politicians, judges, newspaper proprietors, policemen and whoever else they need or require to protect their profits

Care to name which banks and which politicians/judges etc or in fact any real evidence of this?

I recently witnessed a person claiming the judiciary were paid by a local council to rule in their favour. Said person is now facing proceedings. It is a serious crime to make such claims of the judiciary.

 

[SFTP]

Some people are above the law because of the financial power they wield. This is crude marxism, power accrues to those with the most money and the will to use it; banks buy or rent politicians, judges, newspaper proprietors, policemen and whoever else they need or require to protect their profits

They got Madoff though. White collar crime typically incurs less severe punishment as usually there's no real physical/actual bodily harm as a consequence although you could argue the more serious acts might put some people into poverty if they're totally cleaned out.

Fiddling LIBORrates / avoiding taxes diddles the economy but at the end of the day no one dies or is severely traumatised.

 

[davemercedes]

They got Madoff though. White collar crime typically incurs less severe punishment as usually there's no real physical/actual bodily harm as a consequence although you could argue the more serious acts might put some people into poverty if they're totally cleaned out.

Fiddling LIBORrates / avoiding taxes diddles the economy but at the end of the day no one dies or is severely traumatised.

Hang on though - I posted a report that describes a $10 BILLION scam. I think that's a fairly severe scam but because they are a bank, they can just "negotiate" their way out of it!

At least in the end, four crooked bankers got jail for the LIBOR skim and never mind the big abstract "economy" - LIBOR sets the rate for TRILLIONS of pounds in loans for households and companies worldwide - so it "hurt" every single one of us who ever changed currency for any reason. But even for that rip-off, not one of the paying punters got a refund (although instead of it going to the Treasury this time, the fines were earmarked for military charities etc).

When I read about this latest one, I just reacted to a bad smell yet again... Is the no end to this?
- Still, I suppose if they were in UK they'd all be knighted!

 

[prwales]

Care to name which banks and which politicians/judges etc or in fact any real evidence of this?

I recently witnessed a person claiming the judiciary were paid by a local council to rule in their favour. Said person is now facing proceedings. It is a serious crime to make such claims of the judiciary.

It's subtle stuff Alfie, a nod or a wink, a promise of a gong or a favour to be returned in the future; these people move in the same social circles, have shared interests and shared politics so such a thing as naked financial corruption is simply not necessary

 

[Xtractorfan]

Care to name which banks and which politicians/judges etc or in fact any real evidence of this?

I recently witnessed a person claiming the judiciary were paid by a local council to rule in their favour. Said person is now facing proceedings. It is a serious crime to make such claims of the judiciary.

It would probably be easier for you Alfie to name the ones that aren't on the take.
Someone once asked me 'Where would you find an Honest man?'

 

[SFTP]

Hang on though - I posted a report that describes a $10 BILLION scam. I think that's a fairly severe scam but because they are a bank, they can just "negotiate" their way out of it!

At least in the end, four crooked bankers got jail for the LIBOR skim and never mind the big abstract "economy" - LIBOR sets the rate for TRILLIONS of pounds in loans for households and companies worldwide - so it "hurt" every single one of us who ever changed currency for any reason. But even for that rip-off, not one of the paying punters got a refund (although instead of it going to the Treasury this time, the fines were earmarked for military charities etc).

When I read about this latest one, I just reacted to a bad smell yet again... Is the no end to this?
- Still, I suppose if they were in UK they'd all be knighted!

There is always a bad smell with the financial sector but paying £20 more for your holiday money isn't really going to change your life. Nor is paying £25/month more on a personal loan. Not compared to the grief to the loss of a loved one due to murder or the long term issues due to sexual abuse. It's why rapists and murderers feel the wrath of the judiciary system more.

However I would agree white collar criminals seem to get off particularly lightly. When you say a bank what you really mean is a few self serving people at the top. Is a lengthy court case really in the public interest given how backed up the courts presently are?

 

[Xtractorfan]

There is always a bad smell with the financial sector but paying £20 more for your holiday money isn't really going to change your life. Nor is paying £25/month more on a personal loan. Not compared to the grief to the loss of a loved one due to murder or the long term issues due to sexual abuse. It's why rapists and murderers feel the wrath of the judiciary system more.

However I would agree white collar criminals seem to get off particularly lightly. When you say a bank what you really mean is a few self serving people at the top. Is a lengthy court case really in the public interest given how backed up the courts presently are?

Totally agree, we should just let them get on with it.
The Hatton Garden robbery didn't physically harm anyone, so why bother prosecuting them.

 

[Taffy7hfa]

Welcome to the entrance of the rabbit hole, it goes down a very long way, if you keep going you will end up a Marxist like me

 

[davemercedes]

There is always a bad smell with the financial sector but paying £20 more for your holiday money isn't really going to change your life. Nor is paying £25/month more on a personal loan. Not compared to the grief to the loss of a loved one due to murder or the long term issues due to sexual abuse. It's why rapists and murderers feel the wrath of the judiciary system more.

However I would agree white collar criminals seem to get off particularly lightly. When you say a bank what you really mean is a few self serving people at the top. Is a lengthy court case really in the public interest given how backed up the courts presently are?

Totally agree, we should just let them get on with it.
The Hatton Garden robbery didn't physically harm anyone, so why bother prosecuting them.

Wow. How very accommodating of you both.

Perhaps we should give them the Queen's Award to Industry? And at the very least MBE or OBE etc?

Any other "unhurtful" scams you think should be just "accepted"?
- Smuggling booze perhaps?
- Fake electronics e.g.: 2GB SD card turns out to be 2MB?
.......etc etc

Don't even think of showing "would be scammers" that if they get caught they'll have the law come down on them... Let's not bother prosecuting them at all ... save all the court time and let everyone off - then the courts won't be backed up at all and Mrs May can close them down as an austerity measure!

 

[Frontstep]

The stark truth is people at all ends of the financial spectrum can "negotiate" fines for certain offences.

Should we have locked up a few dozen bankers and in particular their bosses yep, but these are essentially gambling debts and tricky to unravel and lay blame because of the intentionally byzantine methods used.

 

[davemercedes]

I think they're thieving.

As I said, Jack the Lad locally steals something, gets caught and gets punished (for theft).

These financial louts are thieves who have obviously now worked the cost of fines etc into the risk element of their business.
- They wouldn't be quite so clever if they were sharing a cell with a very large gentleman of dubious background and sexual proclivity.
- Also a bit of publicity on that score might make one or two think before they stick their dirty little (sorry, big) fingers in the till!

But no. It's much easier and more sensible to let them get away with it!

 

[Alfie]

It's subtle stuff Alfie, a nod or a wink, a promise of a gong or a favour to be returned in the future; these people move in the same social circles, have shared interests and shared politics so such a thing as naked financial corruption is simply not necessary

I have a couple of friends who have very high end jobs in the city and neither would ever dream of anything you suggest. Do not tar everyone with your dirty brush, just as I do not tar all union leaders as power crazy corrupt workshy individuals (just Len McClusky)

 

[Xtractorfan]

Wow. How very accommodating of you both.

Perhaps we should give them the Queen's Award to Industry? And at the very least MBE or OBE etc?

Any other "unhurtful" scams you think should be just "accepted"?
- Smuggling booze perhaps?
- Fake electronics e.g.: 2GB SD card turns out to be 2MB?
.......etc etc

Don't even think of showing "would be scammers" that if they get caught they'll have the law come down on them... Let's not bother prosecuting them at all ... save all the court time and let everyone off - then the courts won't be backed up at all and Mrs May can close them down as an austerity measure!

Sorry Dave I forgot to put the usual smilies at the end of my post... I was being sarcastically liberal after reading SFTP's post, and his thinking that those daylight and night time robbers should get out of Jail free cards.
Let me be the first to pull the trigger on them. For they and their kind brought almost all of the free world to the brink of disaster, and many people perished because of them.
The results of their crimes are never seen above the surface, and they do reach far and wide.

 

[davemercedes]

I have a couple of friends who have very high end jobs in the city and neither would ever dream of anything you suggest. Do not tar everyone with your dirty brush, just as I do not tar all union leaders as power crazy corrupt workshy individuals (just Len McClusky)

You are unfairly putting words in my mouth and accusing me of saying something I emphatically did not.
- I did NOT tar all bankers with the same brush.

I posted about a fraudulent scam of quite enormous proportions ($10 BILLION!) and even gave the name of the bank and the "agreed" penalty (it's in the public domain). There have been a few of these "agreements" in recent years.

But I questioned why/how "Jack the Lad" - the local villain, gets caught, done and punished - maybe even sent down - but bankers can "negotiate a fine" and I asked how/why/where does it end?

To my surprise I got two answers posted - effectively saying don't bother, just let them all get away with it - it's only money etc, save court time and backlog! Unbelievable.

If someone fraudulently applies for and get state benefits - it's only money after all - and by the rationale of the postings above it doesn't hurt anyone - should they be allowed to get away with it?

So what's the difference between a low life thief, a benefits cheat or a banker (or for that matter any other person) committing a fraud?



- PS: On the trade union subject you forgot the other word: "greedy" !

 

[Naraic]

There is always a bad smell with the financial sector but paying £20 more for your holiday money isn't really going to change your life. Nor is paying £25/month more on a personal loan. Not compared to the grief to the loss of a loved one due to murder or the long term issues due to sexual abuse. It's why rapists and murderers feel the wrath of the judiciary system more.

However I would agree white collar criminals seem to get off particularly lightly. When you say a bank what you really mean is a few self serving people at the top. Is a lengthy court case really in the public interest given how backed up the courts presently are?

You sound like a banker...lol.

(If you are...no offence meant).

 

[davemercedes]

You sound like a banker...lol.

(If you are...no offence meant).

- You mean a banker who just charged me an extra twenty quid?

 

[Alfie]

You are unfairly putting words in my mouth and accusing me of saying something I emphatically did not.
- I did NOT tar all bankers with the same brush.

I posted about a fraudulent scam of quite enormous proportions ($10 BILLION!) and even gave the name of the bank and the "agreed" penalty (it's in the public domain). There have been a few of these "agreements" in recent years.

But I questioned why/how "Jack the Lad" - the local villain, gets caught, done and punished - maybe even sent down - but bankers can "negotiate a fine" and I asked how/why/where does it end?

To my surprise I got two answers posted - effectively saying don't bother, just let them all get away with it - it's only money etc, save court time and backlog! Unbelievable.

If someone fraudulently applies for and get state benefits - it's only money after all - and by the rationale of the postings above it doesn't hurt anyone - should they be allowed to get away with it?

So what's the difference between a low life thief, a benefits cheat or a banker (or for that matter any other person) committing a fraud?



- PS: On the trade union subject you forgot the other word: "greedy" !

I wasnt quoting you! I quoted another member

 

[SFTP]

You sound like a banker...lol.

(If you are...no offence meant).

I'm not. I'm just the guy that paid a few bob more for their holiday money that's all. Perhaps if it was my pension pot that was looted I'd take a different view mind you.