Best prewash method for prewashing a car smoothered in brick dust?

Naraic

Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
10,686
Reaction score
1,274
Your Mercedes
2005 CL500.
Tell me is it just personal or are you truly that thick!
I bet school was a huge challenge
Oh dear...and here was me thinking I'd got away with it in post#7.:)
 
OP
Submariner1

Submariner1

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2016
Messages
4,689
Reaction score
787
Location
Windsor Berkshire
Your Mercedes
CL500 2009 5.5
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #63
Hehe- was busy last night sorry I missed this!
Peter it sounds like you will have to get some professional detailer to sort this with all respect, I worry about what’s next with that abrasive dust
The neighbours builder has been decent enough to admit responsibility so you need to corner him before Sunday with an idea from your local detailer what needs done and cost
Why should you be doing it after all?
It’s going to need some flatting and correction by the sound of it and looking at the pic it’s the right time anyway so win win hopefully not at your expense

It may well come to that. My friend who owns a building company, that also does extensions came around for a beer last night.
He looked at it, and said ****! Whatever you do dont use a sponge or a mitt until you have got that off.
His workman let clouds of cement powder settle on a customers Bentley.
Naturally the owner went mad, so he got his guys to very carefully wash it. End result the cement grit micro scratched the clear-coat. He admitted under a street light it looked awful!

End result, he was advised by his solicitors, who engaged Council, to pay £8,000 plus legal cost to redo the clear coat! His barrister said the judgement would hang on the facts that the customer was not asked to move the car or warned of the danger. And he had the right to have the car put back to its original condition. And as polishing out the scratches would make the protective clear coat thinner, the customers argument that this degraded his car would be valid.

Sadly he knows the type of tile and reckons my problem i.e. why it wont rinse off, is the dust it creates has a high cement content. So when wetted by the dew, it sort of reconstituted itself as cement!
Obviously in my case not raw cement but it will retwin some of its properties.
Add the tile dust and the diamond dust of the cutters. And you have an Effing great abraisive cocktail!

I think he is spot on. If you wet a small patch it feels gritty, if you move your finger around its as though a very thin skin breaks down, and then you find glossy paint.

Bearing that in mind, after Snow Foaming it and rinsing it, would it be gentler to find an incredibly soft natural brush and painstakingly copiously wet it with fairly strong bodywash and gently tease it off 4”x4”at a time whilst constantly rinsing it with a water spray.
Just thinking, even a fine wool mitt could sort of clog and itself become a bit like an aabraisive pad.?
Any views?
 
Last edited:
OP
Submariner1

Submariner1

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2016
Messages
4,689
Reaction score
787
Location
Windsor Berkshire
Your Mercedes
CL500 2009 5.5
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #64
Ok to help a few out on here that don't necessarily understand the issue Peter is facing.

There isn't a wax or sealant on the market that will stop industrial fallout, baked onto a damp car in the sun, from sticking to the car.

The only coatings that will stand a chance are the proper Ceramic Coatings (Gyeon Mohs+ and Gtechniq Crystal Serum Ultra). But some fallout would still remain in this instance even on those! Part of the reason for developing these coatings is because of the comparative lack of performace by Waxes & Sealants

The only way you are going to guarantee removal (outside of machine polishing) is the process that I detailed in one of my earlier posts.

Pressure washing a car doesn't remove fallout or tar. Not unless you have one that is so powerful that you start to damage the paintwork with it! Hence there are dedicated Tar and Fallout removers (some are even combined). A pressure washer has a hard job or removing road grime and tree sap so if you think it will remove baked on industrial fallout you are sadly mistaken. It may be good enough for your particular standard but for mine (and others like Peter etc) who like the car to look as immaculate as possible then it isn't.

The thing with a pressure washer is people make the assumption that more pressure means better cleaning. Whilst pressure is a factor the key part is flow volume. A 120bar PW flowing 500ltr/hr will provide better cleaning than a 140bar PW flowing 400ltr/hr.

Peter's car is probably going to need to be coated with a fallout remover (Iron-X, Dragons Breath, GTechniq W6 etc) to help remove the contaminants. The idea behind this (and the process I detailed) is to remove as much as possible before rubbing a wash mitt (or clay) all round the car. Otherwise he may as well go and clean it with Wire Wool as it will look like he has anyway!

Fot those wanting a decent foam lance. This is the one i have and is easily serviceable. Just make sure you choose the correct connector for your pressure washer

https://www.autobritedirect.co.uk/i...heavy-duty-foam-lance-various-connectors.html

Snowfoam that will actually dwell and help in these situations

https://www.autobritedirect.co.uk/i...aning/prewash-dirt-bug-removers/magifoam.html

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/bilt-hamber-auto-foam

Fallout Removers. Whole host of them to chose from here.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/exterior/paint-contamination/iron-fallout#page=1&top=844&

Bug, Tar, Tree Sap etc removers

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/exterior/paint-contamination/bug-tar-glue

This is the only clay I recommend as it doens't need anything other than water and it works very very well. I've tried loads of different makes over the years and this does what it says on the tin.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/bilt-hamber-auto-clay-medium-200g.

Car Shampoo is personal choice. Again I've tried a few and found this to be one of the best out there.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/sonax-gloss-shampoo-concentrate

Links are from Clean Your Car as I know they stock most things. Do your own research to find cheaper/better deals.

Thanks Carl
Very much appreciated.
I shall get ordering ..
The only item I am stuck on is the foam lance .. sadly my Karcher has the new 2018 Easy Lock system.
Although it is a fantastic secure and ultra fast locking system it is very proprietory! A custom trapeezoid thread :(. Very expensive at £96!

One of the main reasons for buying the car was the immaculate paintwork, very few swirl marks etc"
So I will follow your advice, no point in rushing it and ending up with the brillo pad look.

On a note to others, one new E320 Coupe never made it out of the main dealers, due to a paint flaw, like a brown tinge under the clear coat. Luckily I hadnt taken it out of the Dealership. They sent some experts down from MB Milton Keynes, and he had a piece of kit that “can see micro puncture hole created by powerfL jet washers” . He said with water based paints this can cause radically accelerated corrosion issues.

Hence my choice of Karcher 98 Bar but 600L per minute, that technician made the same point as you!
What you want is high flow but low pressure.
 

LostKiwi

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
31,328
Reaction score
21,575
Location
Midlands / Charente-Maritime
Your Mercedes
'93 500SL-32, '01 W210 Estate E240 (RIP), 02 R230 SL500, 04 Smart Roadster Coupe, 11 R350CDi
I wouldn't touch it Sub. If you do you weaken any case against the builders next door.
Speak to them, tell them it needs to go to a proper shop to be done and make sure they agree to foot the bill.
 

John Laidlaw

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
26,373
Reaction score
9,163
Location
Wirral
Your Mercedes
Land Rover Discovery 4
Great and extensive post from Carl- no one knows better on this stuff so take heed.
Peter, having said all that, when you tot up all the stuff you are going to need and the cost I’m still thinking pursuing the builder to have your car paint corrected and detailed along the lines Carl has stated would be your best bet. Just my twopence
 

Wighty

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
13,435
Reaction score
12,467
Location
Sunny Essex
Your Mercedes
W211/E320cdi/2009 and CLK200k 2009
Sub , last week you were telling a guy who had oil consumption issues to not touch it , return it to dealer or weaken your case ! This is probably your "case weakening moment " . Especially as you set impossibly high standards for yourself , if you attempt this work and it isnt 110% then as far as the builder is concerned you have just caused the damage yourself ! At which point he would rightly "stand from under" .
More so if another week has passed .
 

keefysher

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
4,506
Reaction score
2,695
Location
Hampshire
Your Mercedes
W166 GLE350AMG Line 3.0 2017. BMW Z3 2.8 1998.
Is not the bodger builder insured? They done it, they fix it, simples. :rolleyes:

Or is the drama a part of the crisis management plan? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I always use a low pressure washer fed from a water butt to rinse prior to the two bucket / wash mitt method, then final rinse before microfibre dry. In fact did mine on Weds, just didn't post pics as my block paving driveway is only marginally cleaner that Mr L's and I don't leave an open goal :alien:. I too live in a hard water area not a million miles from Windsor, hence the water butt reservoir at each downpipe to prevent horrible white chalk marks.
 

John Laidlaw

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
26,373
Reaction score
9,163
Location
Wirral
Your Mercedes
Land Rover Discovery 4
Is not the bodger builder insured? They done it, they fix it, simples. :rolleyes:

Or is the drama a part of the crisis management plan? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I always use a low pressure washer fed from a water butt to rinse prior to the two bucket / wash mitt method, then final rinse before microfibre dry. In fact did mine on Weds, just didn't post pics as my block paving driveway is only marginally cleaner that Mr L's and I don't leave an open goal :alien:. I too live in a hard water area not a million miles from Windsor, hence the water butt reservoir at each downpipe to prevent horrible white chalk marks.
Damn you Keith, I thought I was in with a chance until I read on! :rolleyes:
 

Capra

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
3,320
Reaction score
1,197
Location
Gloucestershire
Your Mercedes
W204 2013 C350 CDI Pan roof
Ok to help a few out on here that don't necessarily understand the issue Peter is facing.

There isn't a wax or sealant on the market that will stop industrial fallout, baked onto a damp car in the sun, from sticking to the car.

The only coatings that will stand a chance are the proper Ceramic Coatings (Gyeon Mohs+ and Gtechniq Crystal Serum Ultra). But some fallout would still remain in this instance even on those! Part of the reason for developing these coatings is because of the comparative lack of performace by Waxes & Sealants

The only way you are going to guarantee removal (outside of machine polishing) is the process that I detailed in one of my earlier posts.

Pressure washing a car doesn't remove fallout or tar. Not unless you have one that is so powerful that you start to damage the paintwork with it! Hence there are dedicated Tar and Fallout removers (some are even combined). A pressure washer has a hard job or removing road grime and tree sap so if you think it will remove baked on industrial fallout you are sadly mistaken. It may be good enough for your particular standard but for mine (and others like Peter etc) who like the car to look as immaculate as possible then it isn't.

The thing with a pressure washer is people make the assumption that more pressure means better cleaning. Whilst pressure is a factor the key part is flow volume. A 120bar PW flowing 500ltr/hr will provide better cleaning than a 140bar PW flowing 400ltr/hr.

Peter's car is probably going to need to be coated with a fallout remover (Iron-X, Dragons Breath, GTechniq W6 etc) to help remove the contaminants. The idea behind this (and the process I detailed) is to remove as much as possible before rubbing a wash mitt (or clay) all round the car. Otherwise he may as well go and clean it with Wire Wool as it will look like he has anyway!

Fot those wanting a decent foam lance. This is the one i have and is easily serviceable. Just make sure you choose the correct connector for your pressure washer

https://www.autobritedirect.co.uk/i...heavy-duty-foam-lance-various-connectors.html

Snowfoam that will actually dwell and help in these situations

https://www.autobritedirect.co.uk/i...aning/prewash-dirt-bug-removers/magifoam.html

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/bilt-hamber-auto-foam

Fallout Removers. Whole host of them to chose from here.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/exterior/paint-contamination/iron-fallout#page=1&top=844&

Bug, Tar, Tree Sap etc removers

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/exterior/paint-contamination/bug-tar-glue

This is the only clay I recommend as it doens't need anything other than water and it works very very well. I've tried loads of different makes over the years and this does what it says on the tin.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/bilt-hamber-auto-clay-medium-200g.

Car Shampoo is personal choice. Again I've tried a few and found this to be one of the best out there.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/sonax-gloss-shampoo-concentrate

Links are from Clean Your Car as I know they stock most things. Do your own research to find cheaper/better deals.
Great post Carl. This is a daft question but, are fallout removers used during any cleaning regeme?
 

C350Carl

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
4,580
Reaction score
898
Location
Middle East
Your Mercedes
BMW 740Ld xDrive
Great post Carl. This is a daft question but, are fallout removers used during any cleaning regeme?

You should only really use when required. I wouldn’t recommend using them all the time as they will reduce the effectiveness of the sacrificial layer (wax/sealant etc).
 

Capra

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
3,320
Reaction score
1,197
Location
Gloucestershire
Your Mercedes
W204 2013 C350 CDI Pan roof
You should only really use when required. I wouldn’t recommend using them all the time as they will reduce the effectiveness of the sacrificial layer (wax/sealant etc).
Ok thanks Carl, I think mine is ok without.
 
OP
Submariner1

Submariner1

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2016
Messages
4,689
Reaction score
787
Location
Windsor Berkshire
Your Mercedes
CL500 2009 5.5
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #73
I wouldn't touch it Sub. If you do you weaken any case against the builders next door.
Speak to them, tell them it needs to go to a proper shop to be done and make sure they agree to foot the bill.

Yep spoke to four professional, the most knowledge being Kelly, Carls recommendation, top top guy really knows his stuff.
Verbal quotes based on facts and pictures range-
1. £300-400
2. £500- 1000
3. £350 - 950. Took it here and awaiting his costs based on seeing it.
4. £750- 1,500

General concensus brick dust, sand, or road dirt .. no problems justs needs a snow foam and perhaps a lifter -cleaner, then repolishing and rewaxing.

Ground cement tile dust (mix of cement , sand, other silicas) and diamond cutter dust.
F*cking nightmare, dew and spasmodic rain start to reconstitute weak cement solution that locks in the grit!
Needs careful, multiple washes and then specialist cleaners and then claying to remove it, and then will highly likely be micro marred. So it will need a light machine polish, circa 1/10 of a micron off ( if you really know what you are doing).

I’ll leave this to the Pros.
Many thanks to Carl for all his invaluable help.



When explained to the builder, he said he would have to think about it over the weekend , as he has a few mates in the business. “I didnt think it would be that much ... “ but when I explained what I had been told, he said “I can see the logic!”.
Bet he wishes he had bought them a £125 dust extractor hood! Or a wet cutter. ;)

And thank God I didnt try and wash it!

Lets hope he doesnt come back with some monkey quote or a guy and two buckets and a sponge, the same sponge he has used on 50 other cars. Ala Supermarket car wash boys.

I will just stick to washing the windows so I can open them, and spraying AG Body wash on and then Power washing it down and blow drying it. To remove any more dust that blows off the scaffolding walkways and roof area until this is resolved.
 

C350Carl

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
4,580
Reaction score
898
Location
Middle East
Your Mercedes
BMW 740Ld xDrive
Kelly at KDS is one of, if not the best out there. They always say ask another detailer who they would take their car to if they didn’t do it themselves. Kelly would be my first choice.

Hope you can get it sorted soon.
 

JBell

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
14,845
Reaction score
7,186
Location
Torquey
Your Mercedes
C350 CDi Estate (GAD Edition)
Lets hope he doesnt come back with some monkey quote or a guy and two buckets and a sponge, the same sponge he has used on 50 other cars.

Back to sponges again!!!
 

L John

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
2,860
Reaction score
553
Location
UK
Your Mercedes
W204 C350 Petrol Elegance
Verbal quotes based on facts and pictures range-
1. Just hose it off
2. £300-400
3. £500- 1000
4. £350 - 950. Took it here and awaiting his costs based on seeing it.
5. £750- 1,500

FTFY :)
 
OP
Submariner1

Submariner1

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2016
Messages
4,689
Reaction score
787
Location
Windsor Berkshire
Your Mercedes
CL500 2009 5.5
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #77
Kelly at KDS is one of, if not the best out there. They always say ask another detailer who they would take their car to if they didn’t do it themselves. Kelly would be my first choice.

Hope you can get it sorted soon.
Yep his knowledge is unbeleivable.
Instead of the usual bullsh*t, you get an utterly logical explanation of the problem and the cure.
Plus his deep almost scientific knowledge is very reassuring.
The curse of a high IQ is one instantly gets very uncomfortable, when you find a supplier who doesnt understand his business!
This guy is quite remarkable!
The sort of guy you would quite happily hand over a month old Veron!

The only negative is a 90 mile drive to the other side of London, but worth it.
 
Last edited:

d215yq

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
2,664
Reaction score
702
Age
39
Location
Valencia, Spain
Your Mercedes
1987 W124 300D 280k miles
The curse of a high IQ is one instantly gets very uncomfortable, when you find a supplier who doesnt understand his business!

The problem with IQ scores is that those who are really highly intelligent work out that it is a complete waste of time to verify their IQ in the first place, and even moreso to boast about it on a forum...especially in a gramatically incorrect sentence.
 


Welwyn Merx Limited is a family run business with genuine passion, dedication and 25 years of experience dealing with Mercedes-Benz and AMG passenger cars.
Tel: 01707 395999www.welwynmerx.uk
Top Bottom