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Brake Size Upgrade on W204...?

Discussion in 'Suspension, Steering & Brakes' started by moj91, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. moj91

    moj91 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    '09 W204 C-Class 250 CDi, '05 W220 S-Class 320CDI (AMG Kit), '03 W168 A-Class 170CDI LWB Elegance...
    Has anyone upgraded the 295mm discs as found as standard on the smaller engined W204 C-Classes to the larger ones as found on the 350 CDi etc..?

    I know both discs and calipers/carriers will need to be swapped, but are they a straight fit to the hub? Same sensor connections? Same bolts, hose etc.?? Does the car need re-calibrating or anything?

    I've tried to work it out using WisAsra, but struggling!!

    Thanks!!
     
  2. television

    television Always remembered RIP

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    Your Mercedes:
    2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
    It could get expensive to do that, and more than the job is worth.
     
    mioba likes this.
  3. hotrodder

    hotrodder Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    '93 320te, '54 ragtop beetle (in bits)
    The hub is virtually guarenteed to be the same, might be detail differences with some/all of the associated hardware but i don't know. What about the master cylinder? Same size/part #? As Malcolm i don't get it... the bigger engined model got bigger brakes 'cos it's got a higher top speed and and can get there more quickly so the brakes need to be able to cope with and dissapate a lot more heat. Kinetic energy = 1/2mv^2 which says that double the speed the brakes have FOUR times as much energy to turn into heat

    Unless you're managing to suffer brake fade all you'll get for the money and aggro is brakes that 'fill the wheels' better* and the hassle of more modifications to declare when renewing insurance.

    * That's assuming the wheels are bigger than they need to be to clear the brakes which, granted, isn't likely to be an issue on more modern stuff due to the fashion for huuuuge wheels
     
  4. bigasotonuk

    bigasotonuk Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    C43/55 AMG 1999 / C230K 1997
    I know on the earlier C classes you could swap the brakes over with no issues as the front and rear hubs were common across the whole range, and I would expect the same with the 204.
    If I was doing it I would be doing the same as you and studying the EPC in great detail paying specific attention to the hubs.
    A lot of the newer MBs had the option of larger brakes with the Sport pack, larger drilled discs, bigger (more pistons?) callipers etc. might be worth exploring that option, but as previously mentioned don't forget you might have to replace wheels to clear the new larger callipers.
     
  5. coventryslk

    coventryslk Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    W204 CDI Sport
    Standard 295 mm are big enough.
     
  6. OP
    moj91

    moj91 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    '09 W204 C-Class 250 CDi, '05 W220 S-Class 320CDI (AMG Kit), '03 W168 A-Class 170CDI LWB Elegance...
    Thanks for your input guys, apart from the aesthetic appeal (the 18" AMG rims I have are large enough..) brake fade does become an issue, I live near Milton Keynes, so it doesn't get much harder on brakes and tyres haha!

    I had 310mm discs on a 1.7 astra which was a factory fit. Now that, stopped well! (and weighed 500kg less but.. yeah..)

    I think i might have to dedicate a Saturday to EPC to try to work it all out... Further input still appreciated though!
     
  7. Benzworx

    Benzworx Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    CLK 55 amg
    You could upgrade to C63 rotors and calipers but its money !
     
  8. S.Speed

    S.Speed Senior Member

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    Don't Bother !!
    I have them on mine and they are over rated.. Discs are around £600 each !!!
    360mm and monster callipers look good but they really aren't anything special in use!
     
  9. C350Carl

    C350Carl Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    I've been thinking about your brake issue Simon. I think it could be the pads. A friend of mine runs a 500bhp (soon to be 600) Skoda Octavia for track days. He hates Ferodo pads and swears by Mintex. He said the Ferodo pads always make the brakes feel spongy but the Mintex make the brakes feel a lot better.

    Might be worth looking at what make the pads are and see if you can get a different brand. I know VAG use different make OEM pads for the same caliper. Just depends on who was the cheapest that month when they're delivered.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
  10. mmmadman

    mmmadman Active Member

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    This may not be of much help but it shows you its do-able and not to costly, it may be applicable to your model.

    I have an 02 CLK320 (C209) with the standard 300mm discs and single pot calipers.

    I went to a breakers to get some 18" AMG wheels and while I was there I noticed some AMG 4 pot calipers (Brembo) I paid £130 for two calipers and two 345mm discs. They just bolt straight onto my hubs.

    I bought some new drilled discs from MTEC for around £110 even though the ones I got were ok, just not drilled.

    I stripped down the calipers, had them soda blasted the rebuilt them, sprayed them red, added Brembo transfers and fitted a new seal kit and pads.

    I must say they look fab, all for around £400 (that's the price of one new caliper)


    Cheers...
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  11. OP
    moj91

    moj91 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    '09 W204 C-Class 250 CDi, '05 W220 S-Class 320CDI (AMG Kit), '03 W168 A-Class 170CDI LWB Elegance...
    Well, I spent a couple of hours on EPC, and have since bought some callipers and discs from an E350, as they seem to be identical to the ones found on the C350. I'll spend some more time cross checking everything before i go to fit them. I just need to make sure no computer related things need to be recalibrated.

    Hopefully when fitted less fade and a touch more stopping power and I'll be happy :)

    Just had the turbo go on our S320 so that's going to be £££ and the priority for the time being... I'll post a before and after when i get around to fitting them! Thanks!
     
  12. Hario'

    Hario' Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    W202 Wagon OM606STD
    I'm doing something similar, after lots of purists telling me I didn't want to upgrade my calipers or my discs I am pretty sure that is exactly what I still want to do..

    So from eBay (These are a direct fit):

    *W220 S320 cdi front calipers, 4-pot brembos (black, 330mm): £49.99 ea.
    *W203 C270/320 cdi rotors, 330mm, drilled: £38 ea.
    *W220 S320 cdi front pads: £19.99 both sides

    Total: £19.97. Win. Pics to follow..
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  13. OP
    moj91

    moj91 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    '09 W204 C-Class 250 CDi, '05 W220 S-Class 320CDI (AMG Kit), '03 W168 A-Class 170CDI LWB Elegance...
    Would this be on a W203 though? I thought that those generation of calipers and discs would not fit on a W204?
     
  14. OP
    moj91

    moj91 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    '09 W204 C-Class 250 CDi, '05 W220 S-Class 320CDI (AMG Kit), '03 W168 A-Class 170CDI LWB Elegance...
    Outcome...

    I said on another post that I would reply after putting the new brakes on, so... :lol:

    I have successfully swapped the 295mm set up for the 322mm set up as found on the C350 CDi, etc.

    The calipers and discs were a straight swap, as the hubs and shields are the same. The hoses were also the same, but i fitted new ones anyway. Cable (and little bolt) for wear sensor, also a straight swap.

    I believe the caliper bolts were also the same, but i fitted new ones anyway.

    All-in-all i needed: both sides 350Cdi Calipers, 2x discs (322mm with locating bolt), new pad set, new brake wear sensor. I also changed the hoses and hub bolts for good measure.

    It is also worth giving the shields a clean and a coat of Hammerite whilst you are are in there, saves them rusting away prematurely.

    All in all it was a pretty quick, simple job. Just remember to screw the hoses into the calliper first if they are being changed.

    For the cost of the parts, I think it is a great 'upgrade', the stopping 'power' of the car has been greatly improved which makes all the difference with a fully loaded car, and they look great! Also, oddly, it seems that these larger discs and pads are cheaper from outlets such as ECP than the 295 size, so a win there too!

    My 16" winter wheels do actually fit over them, just. Perhaps a little too close for comfort. Maybe 5mm gap?

    My (new) 17" winter wheels fit with plenty of clearance :)

    All-in-all, very happy with the results.

    If you can get a pair of calipers in good condition from a breaker, its worth the effort if you need to buy new discs and pads at the same time anyway!

    :)
     
  15. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

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    C350 CDi Estate (GAD Edition)
    I would have put Red Stuff pads in as well to further improve braking
     
  16. OP
    moj91

    moj91 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    '09 W204 C-Class 250 CDi, '05 W220 S-Class 320CDI (AMG Kit), '03 W168 A-Class 170CDI LWB Elegance...
    May do next time i change the discs, the price put me off though. £130 for front red-stuffs, vs. £50 for dealer sourced TRW's... The stopping 'power' is more than adequate now though :)
     
  17. Phil_

    Phil_ New Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    C220 cdi w204
    what year of car did you take the upgrade calipers from>?

    looking to do the same to my '08 c220 cdi

    Phil
     
  18. OP
    moj91

    moj91 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    '09 W204 C-Class 250 CDi, '05 W220 S-Class 320CDI (AMG Kit), '03 W168 A-Class 170CDI LWB Elegance...
    I took mine from a 2012 E-Coupe, however they are the same calipers across the c-class and e-class of the W204/W207 generation.
     
  19. Phil_

    Phil_ New Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    C220 cdi w204
    And could you/anyone confirm at what point in the range we see a shift from the smaller to larger brake setup?

    E250?
    C250?

    Is it only the c/e180/200/220? That has the smaller setup?

    Thanks again in advance

    Phil
     
  20. OP
    moj91

    moj91 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    '09 W204 C-Class 250 CDi, '05 W220 S-Class 320CDI (AMG Kit), '03 W168 A-Class 170CDI LWB Elegance...
    On the W204, only the C350/CDi had the larger brakes, with exception to the AMG's of course.

    The C200/180's had even smaller brakes than the C220/C250 from what I can recall/deduce.

    On the W207, I'm not sure where the break points were.
     

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