Break or Repair? I prefer lemons in my G&Ts

[Matt_in_Surrey]

My introduction to Mercedes ownership hasn't started well . Looking for a car that could allow my Porsche 928GT to avoid a daily motorway commute (and frequent visits to petrol stations ;-) I picked up a W210 E320 CDI Avantgarde. I was careful about who I bought it from and thought I had found an honest guy but perhaps he had completely different standards about keeping cars or he was actually doing a good job of shafting me.

Anyway - I spent some good money and time setting up correctly and was impressed with the drive and ride but a host of things have gone wrong (or have been badly bodged) and I need to find out a good source of recon parts as I reckon I will need quite a bit (starting with the alternator and everything on the front pulley system).

in three months ownership I have replaced:
MAF,
all filters
wheel alignment, tyres
exhaust.

So it's done 140K miles - is it worth repairing or do I cut my losses and avoid further heart ache - are these cars capable of covering further distances without complete overhauls?

Would anyone on this forum be interested in this for spares - nice AMG wheels which I have just put new Conti 3s on all round (for example).

MLC

 

[turbopete]

id keep it if nothing major wrong. i only parted with my e300TD coz the engine was shot!

 

[coolhans]

As Pete said hang on to it especially if you are getting on top of things. Engine wise it will easily do twice that mileage, just keep on top of the oil changes. The only thing that may let you down is rust, the 210 was renowned for it but it didn't effect all of them. I would get that checked out first before spending money. I had a W210 E300TD and it was a lovely car.

 

[Blobcat]

As I read it you've given it a good service and now you're thinking of getting rid of it I would expect almost all used cars to require something, I would keep it and read on the forum for the common issues. Glow plugs and the ATF getting into the electric control module on the gearbox are 2 to look out for. Having an ATF change if it hasn't already been done would be useful for longevity. They were originally specified as sealed for life however the life wasn't quite as long as Mercedes expected so they now specify it to be changed.

 

[Matt_in_Surrey]

Thanks for the comments

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the comments - helpful and thoughtful. I help with the 928 club so fully realise the 'knowledge' that exists out there.

I have found some helpful recon spares places - perhaps when faced with large component replacement prices some folk pull the plug. So I reckon I can complete my parts shopping list at 30-40% of the original MB parts - remembering this is my 'commute car' so a new alternator @ 850 quid may be excessive. I was facinated by it's design though - water cooled, freewheel ... I found replcaement one (with warantee) for 250.

I am mindful about the Auto box - and will definately look out for this.

Will post a review of the parts ordering process and quality when I have sufficient info to judge.

MLC

 

[Iain the gadget]

As I read it you've given it a good service and now you're thinking of getting rid of it I would expect almost all used cars to require something, I would keep it and read on the forum for the common issues. Glow plugs and the ATF getting into the electric control module on the gearbox are 2 to look out for. Having an ATF change if it hasn't already been done would be useful for longevity. They were originally specified as sealed for life however the life wasn't quite as long as Mercedes expected so they now specify it to be changed.

Exactly as I read it too. You serviced it at the beginning of your ownership which is a good starting point and the other points that Blobcat mentions are also good advice.
I don't have a cdi engine in my w202 but many members here do and I always find excellent information provided for those cars, which also makes for interesting reading for us older 'oilers'
Good Luck.

 

[Iain the gadget]

Mercman (Southampton) is an excellent source of parts for these models.

 

[Matt_in_Surrey]

Thanks for the advice about Mercman - I was really happy when it looked like they were in Southampton (as my partner works in the hospital there) so could have popped down with the bits - however - they have moved to CORNWALL! Still - looks like they are pitching at the right level.

 

[Matt_in_Surrey]

Thanks to all who helped - great to have your support. I think I was right in the first case - it's probably a lemon. I have replaced so much already: alternators, belts, rollers, and keep on finding more and more things wrong: blowing injectors, black crystaline stuff, smoking engine on kick down. I have battled to fix them all but probably give up now. It's all running but probably only to get me to the next problem. I think from talking to quite a lot of people these are common problems (injectors) and looking around I don' t think the engine is up to milage in excess of 150K - the exteroir and interior look great. Will put it down to experience and probably not consider MB again.

My 25 old 928 just passed MOT with a clean bill of health - taken me 75K miles since I have had it and the best value car ever (currently at 156K).

 

[as400]

Think you have been unlucky fella! Most of what you have listed are consumables expected on a vehicle of that age/mileage.

Sounds like it should have been better serviced prior to you buying it.

The engine is good for 300K+

Not a lemon.

 

[Matt_in_Surrey]

There is no denying you could be right. The amount and standard of bodges on this motor have been terrible - most hidden until you take the cover off. The frustrating thing is that it does feel like there is some 'quality' in there trying to come out.

We particularly enjoyed the alternator design @ 890 quid, the first water cooled one I have come across and it had a free-wheel deisgn. Unfortunately the supplied gaskets were ill fitting which surprised me and my mechanic. I keep all my vehicles to a pretty high standard which was my aim for this car - the trouble has been re-basing my starting position lower and lower every since I bought it privately from AN EX-MERCEDES DEALER!!!! who claimed to have 'known this car from new' ... I would be prepared to name in case he decides to try this one on again! I am pretty descerning about who I buy from because I reckon you can tell as much about the motor from the person you are buying it from as you can from the motor (I accept that there are always a few things to put right). My trust was mis-placed - he has done MB a big dis-service.


I recognise that there are a lot of these vehicles being broken fairly young/ low milage so if I had space I would collect one for much cheaper parts. I am sure that the high component cost puts a lot of people off repairing them.

 

[dieselman]

I am sure that the high component cost puts a lot of people off repairing them.

Not as much as high labour charges and rust...

So, what are you doing with the old bus?

 

[Matt_in_Surrey]

The ironic thing is that this car has virtually no rust and lovely wheels - apart from the windscreen aperture which was forcing the screen out and cracking it (now treated, re-painted and new glass at the body shop very nice not to have any chips). In my 5 unhappy months of ownership I have changed the: MAF, alternator, all tensioners, belts, new fan, done the tracking (freed up the bolts), new tyres, new battery, injector seals, changed the oil (twice). Took it to MB yesterday for a free check and still they reckon on in excess of 1500 quid to get it going: I have to stop here and get rid of this money pit. Someone will eventually have a great car but for the first time in my life I am considering giving up and buying a FORD.

Does anyone know of an independent MB mechanic in Surrey who I can talk to? The trouble is with the MB dealers (and most dealers) is that they takes your keys and say they'l fix it but don't talk to you to find out what the real problem is. I guess that works when punters say "errrm it makes a knocking noise from the back when I go over bumps" but my queries were more along the line " it's over-fuelling on the 5th cylinder ... I have tried x, y, z what do you suggest" ? Playing chinese whispers with the front of house staff and mechanics seems to be the order.

At the end of the day this is so different from my only other MB ownership a 1984 200 in Botswana which has done 320K km on the same engine / gearbox - it even survived hitting two cows (repaired A pillar and B pillar). I sold to a friend out there and still see it from time to time (looks identical to the one James May used in Botswana).

 

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Have a chat to MBS in Southampton, they're Merc diesel specialists and highly regarded on this forum. You'll find their details on the Jamaca Inn GTG thread.

 

[Top Cat]

Have a chat to MBS in Southampton, they're Merc diesel specialists and highly regarded on this forum. You'll find their details on the Jamaca Inn GTG thread.

Indeed, take the time to speak to a few of the great independents you'll find on here (I think Star in Reading may not be that far away) - you'll probably find it cost effective to travel to one, even book a night in a Premier Inn or some such place, and you'll get proper advice from the man who:

a) knows what he's talking about
b) will listen to what you tell him
c) will personally work on your car

I feel in my bones that you're *almost* there now and the finishing line is in sight, if the car is truly rust free you've just got to grips with these few remaining items and you will have a very nice car, one which you know and have a lot of (your own) history with, thats worth something when it comes to having confidence in a car.

Also, don't forget there are a few good Mercedes specialist breakers on here such as Threepointedparts, you needn't be spending £800+ on parts if you want to see this job through.

 

[OlafMaxwell]

Mine went to 170k until lil ole lady hit it. But its going back on the road.

I did have the injector seals issue, but fixing it was not the worst job. However I did do the job of removing the black death myself as it did not make sense to pay someone €0 and hour to do it. Took me 3 hours but was like a new car afterwards. I left the seals to a dealer though.

The alternator is not always a case though, quite a few were replaced whereas the fault was the battery. They are sensitive to battery condition and voltage. If you are getting electrical anomalies first off check the basttery. A replacement battery is cheaper than getting MB to check the alternator.

My 170k was based on full main dealer maintenance, transmission fluid changes and all servicing.

I was quite happy to keep the car for another 100k, no oil being used and was runninbg very well. Going off my records my total servicing costs from 120k to 170k was approx €2200 at main dealers and included transmission fluid change, brake pads, drop links, coolant change, brake fluid change, injector seals, serpentine belt. All were what would be defined as routine or planned maintenance.

It sounds to me you have done all trhe work. If its rust free its a good car.

If its any consolation I had a lot of trouble up to 75k. Someone buying it at 60k would have spent over €7000 up to 100k. From 100k it has been very trouble free and maintenance since then much less.

As for the Ford, dont even think about it. But I suppose the one thing the Ford main dealer does have is better customer service.

At 140k there are excellent MB independent dealers, some on this site who will give excellent advice on maintenance. There are lots of W210s out there so plenty of knowledge and reasonably priced cars. Put your foot down occasionaly and you wont regret the cost. You might even wish Porsche made diesel cars!

 

[Matt_in_Surrey]

Thanks OlafMaxwell, as an optimist in life I am going through a cycle of going back to it and thinking well - if I just fix the next thing ... this has to end somewhere. Very useful to see your assessment of milage vs service costs.

I have now a very specific target .... No 5 injector over-fuelling "massively". At some time in the past a monkey has been at it and broken the original fixing and repaired with a re-tapped 'different bolt'. this is out of my knowledge base but I am wondering:

What would cause one injector over-fueling (is there something else in the system engine mapping that needs to be considered?)
This happens on kick down and acceleration.
If I replace this injector when then?
Will the CATs still be OK with all the un burnt diesel runing through?

 

[lwbnick]

in three months ownership I have replaced:
MAF,
all filters
wheel alignment, tyres
exhaust.

So it's done 140K miles - is it worth repairing or do I cut my losses and avoid further heart ache - are these cars capable of covering further distances without complete overhauls?

Is the above not just routine maintenance as one would have to do to *any* car?

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Is the above not just routine maintenance as one would have to do to *any* car?

Hi.

I don't think there is anything exceptional in that list. 140,000 miles is after all nearly 3 times round the planet.

Kerbing the tyres, or severely pot holed roads will upset alignment and that can lead to uneven and accelerated tyre wear, so this may be a legacy you have inherited.

I find MB exhausts to be very durable but again at that mileage (and age?) replacement is probably OK.

Bear in mind, these are things which will not need to be done again for a very long time.

Filters and lubricants are predictable routine maintenance.

If you look at outlay on car maintenance, it comes in cycles. A burst of work and costs every so often, usually along with the servicing. Then things go better and should go well until the next service.

 

[Matt_in_Surrey]

I agree with the above points - my other car (just passed MOT no problems aged 21) - has covered 70K miles with me - followed every maintenance schedule and it's fantastic performance, cheap to maintain (it even has to put up with 2/3 track days a year which it handles with ease (as long as it's NOT Silverstone). I am unfortunate with the W210 to have inherited another man's tardy maintenance standards and feel a *mug* for doing so. Actually I have a long history of buying other people's problems, turning them round then selling a good car on fixed and honest with me 'running out of patience having fixed everything'. Being a dangerous combination of optimistic and stubborn doesn't help but does mean I have a rich experience. I am good at advising others but terrible at buying my own motors ;-)

I am being swayed to stick with this one as the W210 has a certain charm about it, cruises well and is quiet as a library; absolutely nothing rattles in side! And it's got to the stage where a new owner would be benefitting from all this.

I spoke to MBS (as recommended here) and they guys seemed exactaly what I was looking for in the first place - it was the "...yes .... oh .. yes... I've seen that before ... yes fixed that ... before ... yes that is a bit of a weak design point .... but I know what you mean ... has convinced me to have one last throw of the cash to see if I can use this machine for just covering the motorway miles I need when I am not on a motorbike (which is NOT quiet a library - although having changed from a Buell to a BMW has helped).

Attached images (hopefully if it works) - my original MB (in Botswana still going strong I am told - this picture was after hitting a cow) and the lady in question (W210).