Breakthrough deal

[Yugguy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040


Of course it is only a first step but I have always maintained that a deal would happen as everyone needs one.

 

[LostKiwi]

I'm very curious to know the detail behind this arrangement.
Someone yesterday described anything acceptable to both sides as a statement of ambiguity where both sides understand something different from the agreement.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I'm very curious to know the detail behind this arrangement.
Someone yesterday described anything acceptable to both sides as a statement of ambiguity where both sides understand something different from the agreement.

It's political. ^^^ This is both entirely possible, entirely plausible and entirely acceptable to both sides. French observance of EU trade law for example falls under this category (indeed, French observance of ANY law...)

 

[Yugguy]

It's been interesting watching May walk the tightrope, partly caused by her own catastrophic decision to call an election, between appeasing the hardline screw-em-all Brexiters, the DUP and the closet Remainers, all of which are quite intransigent.

Rather her than me.

 

[LostKiwi]

partly caused by her own catastrophic decision to call an election

Ironically if she hadn't called an election she wouldn't have had any issues doing as she pleased with NI as the DUP would have been powerless.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Ironically if she hadn't called an election she wouldn't have had any issues doing as she pleased with NI as the DUP would have been powerless.

Yes, the General Election decision has already been noted as one of the worst political blunders since Olaf the Hairy ordered ten thousand battle helmets with the horns on the inside.

 

[Yugguy]

Exactly.

 

[Yugguy]

I like Laura's summings-up, they are usually un-biased and factual.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277936

 

[mikestrivens]

Yes, the General Election decision has already been noted as one of the worst political blunders since Olaf the Hairy ordered ten thousand battle helmets with the horns on the inside.

Or even Gordon Brown's decision not to call one.

 

[M80]

"No specific figures on the Brexit bill"
I'm missing something as I thought that was the real hurdle to jump before the eu would 'permit' trade talks.

Nobody wants a hard border in Ireland, many agree it isn't and never was needed, so just more unnecessary confusion.
ECJ, just a temporary role. So somehow puff and it's pretty much a none issue.
The customs union issue is still up in the air.

It looks to me as though 'we' have come out on top. We get to negotiate the next stage without being tied down to the deal of today. That being if we don't get a trade deal that serves us well enough they sing for their dosh, that I don't agree is due to them anyway.

Besides all the huffing and panting this is too easy, what am I missing?

 

[Craiglxviii]

"No specific figures on the Brexit bill"
I'm missing something as I thought that was the real hurdle to jump before the eu would 'permit' trade talks.

Nobody wants a hard border in Ireland, many agree it isn't and never was needed, so just more unnecessary confusion.
ECJ, just a temporary role. So somehow puff and it's pretty much a none issue.
The customs union issue is still up in the air.

It looks to me as though 'we' have come out on top. We get to negotiate the next stage without being tied down to the deal of today. That being if we don't get a trade deal that serves us well enough they sing for their dosh, that I don't agree is due to them anyway.

Besides all the huffing and panting this is too easy, what am I missing?

Nothing. Except perhaps that this demonstrates the Euros want our market space as much as we want theirs, and they’re not willing to cut their 27 individual noses off to spite their collective face.

 

[dry run]

I actually think we've put ourselves in quite a good position. We have given them what they want, but to get it, they now have to give us what we want.

 

[M80]

Nothing. Except perhaps that this demonstrates the Euros want our market space as much as we want theirs, and they’re not willing to cut their 27 individual noses off to spite their collective face.

So we called their bluff(ish).

They have hung out till the last hour, not yet last minute for the 2nd stage to still be possible, to see how much we would pay. The payment now seems to be the only real concern they ever had, no surprise there as they have over spent on their dreams.

Here is where the whole bluff could and likely will faulter.
They have expectation of many £Billions, we have the upper hand in that we can now hold 'them' to ransom before they get it.

Since I don't believe the status of each sides citizens was ever going to be a problem,
and the ECJ has now become a greatly diminished issue,
Irish border should never have been a serious question as not needed or wanted,
the trade negotiations are the biggy.

Those negotiations will be hard fought, even if just for the eyes of the audiences. I see times when they won't give and we will raise the question of the payment. But in the end both sides want and benefit from, and many lesser affluent members need, good trading.

As I see the situation we are looking good for the future, better than many thought would be at least.
How do the eu now show the rest of the membership that leaving is undesirable?

I must be missing something, Dave?

 

[Yugguy]

Yep, the trade arguments, er I mean discussions, will be the thing.

I predict they will be contentious, down to the wire, we won't hear much out of them til near the end, but ultimately it will be a good one for us.

 

[nicholas15]

I'm very curious to know the detail behind this arrangement.
Someone yesterday described anything acceptable to both sides as a statement of ambiguity where both sides understand something different from the agreement.

One old EC Brussels concept is a budget "envelope" which is a single figure which to sum is a maximum amount and to others a minimum amount that can be spent. Postpones any disagreement until nobody is looking.

 

[LostKiwi]

Seriously?
May has had to give in on the divorce payment and the discussions about Ireland - neither of which he wanted to discuss outside of the total agreement. Furthermore not only did she have to give in on both those she also had to agree an open ended divorce bill estimated at £50Bn against her original £10Bn (of course it could and probably will end up being more than £50Bn) and go appease the both the DUP and Irish prime minister in order to get a very vague agreement over Ireland (which the DUP can still block).

I would say the EU got exactly what it wanted and Mrs May was pretty well screwed.

 

[Frontstep]

Do you know I remember Boris Johnson being universally criticised for saying go whistle for the £100 Billion estimate of our divorce bill, strange old world.
As we haven't got the numbers or the terms methinks one should hold ones charge before firing off, I am.

As to NI, the most interesting point overlooked by the doom mongers is the deal gives no border between the UK and an EU country.
Should I put that order for blankets and food parcels for us on hold ?

 

[Craiglxviii]

To me it smacks of a pretty normal expectation from a series of high end negotiations. Both sides came out with just about what they wanted and can tell a good story to their shareholders around what they had to do to get it.

What both sides went IN with is really immaterial, negotiations are all about the outcome.

 

[Parisien]

As an N I member, it was just a political "dance", seen it many times before, one side objecting or feeling let down until the last waltz when everyone gets something from it, political and economic pragmatism wins in the end...in this instance its win:win but not quite sure where all the movable red lines will end up or if we'll ever truly know.

P

 

[bembo449]

shes a complete coward ! EU have goosed her hands down