brexit free for all to continue

[bembo449]

I don't see the Poles as a problem they integrated in their hundreds of thousands during and after WW2, they mix and intermarry with us, their drinking culture means they fit in well with our working class communities too.
Integration is key, unfortunately our Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Roma seek to establish their own distinct communities, perhaps driven by insecurity, but also due to shared values, shared religion and language. This does not apply to the East African Asians who left Uganda, they did not put themselves in ghettos and are fully integrated. I think the answer is one of class, the Bangladeshi, Pakistanis and Roma we have are essentially peasants with a tribal outlook and culture; whereas the Ugandan asians were business people, entrepreneurs, with all that entails

not sure where you live but round here the poles huddle together , do their own thing and try as little as poss to intergrate ! they also don't drink in the pubs , they get ****ed at home and usually buy their food from the polish food shops that have sprung up OR lidl !

 

[LostKiwi]

It's human nature for people to congregate with people from their homeland. They have common experiences, culture, religion and language. When I came here 30 years ago there was a strong feeling of being alienated and it was always a relief to find a fellow Kiwi and feel part of a something familiar again.
Where I lived at the time there were very few Kiwis or even Aussies about so I was forced to adapt quickly. The main challenge was the accent - because people South Yorkshire weren't used to Kiwi accents it was difficult at times to be understood - particularly on the phone.
Now having bought a house in France we are going through the same thing again but with the added complication of language. We've also already found the local British expat community and are dealing with them for building work etc instead of the French.

So all I'm going to say is its not surprising these communities form. It happens in every country with people of every ethnicity. As time goes on and the non local people begin to adapt and build confidence they move out of their communities and into the broader community but they will almost always maintain that link to those with common culture and language and experiences.

If you've not experienced this for yourself as the foreigner then try not to be too critical till you try it. It's not easy.

 

[V6Matty]

I'm just happy that my wife who has UK Residency but not UK nationality will be allowed to stay,

 

[LostKiwi]

I'm just happy that my wife who has UK Residency but not UK nationality will be allowed to stay,

I know that feeling (but my status is unaffected by Brexit anyway).

Out of interest did your wife find it difficult to settle in the UK?

 

[Frontstep]

Its your attitude that's the issue learn the language respect your hosts and don't try to impose your culture on the natives.

My often bungling attempts at the host countries language and mixing with the locals have invariably gone down well.

Trying to force East Enders the Church of England and raiding the local tax payers purse has never crossed my mind.

 

[LostKiwi]

Its your attitude that's the issue learn the language respect your hosts and don't try to impose your culture on the natives.

My often bungling attempts at the host countries language and mixing with the locals have invariably gone down well.

Trying to force East Enders the Church of England and raiding the local tax payers purse has never crossed my mind.

It's my attitude? Cheers... tell me what's up with it then..

I speak French tolerably well (according to neighbours) and try to avoid English when in France but apparently thats the wrong attitude.
My neighbours are French (and speak no English) invited us for dinner at new year and we all had a lovely evening speaking French but apparently that's the wrong attitude.
My neighbours use two of my barnsto store their firewood but apparently thats the wrong attitude.
We took them to a local vineyard and bought them some wine as a thank you but apparently thats the wrong attitude.
Our neighbours emailed us to assure us the house was fine after a major storm where several houses had roofs blown off but apparently I have the wrong attitude.

Yes I'm using expats to work on a few things on my house but that's because I don't have the confidence to be sure I'm asking for the right thing in French. For example how would you say "can you repoint the end wall and the internal pillar and while you're at it run a new light above the dining table?". My French sadly is not that good yet.

It's a very different thing trying to join a culture different to your own compared to just going on holiday. Most holiday areas have plenty of people who speak English for a start.
Not always the case in rural areas.

Ever tried opening a foreign bank account? Or arranging gas, water and electric bills? How about applying for a foreign mortgage? Or arranging broadband? Or arranging a mooring for the boat? Or any of the other multitude of things that actually living somewhere entails? It's a lot different to just ordering a meal, asking where the nearest bar is or finding your hotel room.

If not try it sometime. It's not easy and the fellow expats are your source of information and assistance. Perfectly natural. They've done it, know the pitfalls, speak your native language (and often the local language) and can make things much easier.
It's natural to seek them out and form an expat community. Then as your own confidence and ability grows you aid others joining the community as well and it perpetuates.

As for raiding the tax payers coffers try researching the facts.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Oi LK. Pack in the attitude

 

[V6Matty]

I know that feeling (but my status is unaffected by Brexit anyway).

Out of interest did your wife find it difficult to settle in the UK?

Still finds it difficult after 12 years Alistair, we do consider moving back there if we could be mortgage free and have the lifestyle we have here, it may happen one day but we will just have to see.

 

[d215yq]

It's my attitude? Cheers... tell me what's up with it then..

I speak French tolerably well (according to neighbours) and try to avoid English when in France but apparently thats the wrong attitude.
My neighbours are French (and speak no English) invited us for dinner at new year and we all had a lovely evening speaking French but apparently that's the wrong attitude.
My neighbours use two of my barnsto store their firewood but apparently thats the wrong attitude.
We took them to a local vineyard and bought them some wine as a thank you but apparently thats the wrong attitude.
Our neighbours emailed us to assure us the house was fine after a major storm where several houses had roofs blown off but apparently I have the wrong attitude.

Yes I'm using expats to work on a few things on my house but that's because I don't have the confidence to be sure I'm asking for the right thing in French. For example how would you say "can you repoint the end wall and the internal pillar and while you're at it run a new light above the dining table?". My French sadly is not that good yet.

It's a very different thing trying to join a culture different to your own compared to just going on holiday. Most holiday areas have plenty of people who speak English for a start.
Not always the case in rural areas.

Ever tried opening a foreign bank account? Or arranging gas, water and electric bills? How about applying for a foreign mortgage? Or arranging broadband? Or arranging a mooring for the boat? Or any of the other multitude of things that actually living somewhere entails? It's a lot different to just ordering a meal, asking where the nearest bar is or finding your hotel room.

If not try it sometime. It's not easy and the fellow expats are your source of information and assistance. Perfectly natural. They've done it, know the pitfalls, speak your native language (and often the local language) and can make things much easier.
It's natural to seek them out and form an expat community. Then as your own confidence and ability grows you aid others joining the community as well and it perpetuates.

As for raiding the tax payers coffers try researching the facts.

Exactly this, took me 3 years before being comfortable in Spanish and being able to communicate with people on a comfortable social level so had mainly expat friends but with perseverance (only reading/watching TV in Spanish, 20 minutes grammar exercises a day, etc) it comes and then as you learn more you have more opportunity to learn more and the whole thing snowballs and I now have more Spanish friends than expats.

Out of the group of expats I know (around 20) only one has point blank refused to make any effort to learn and still just relies on the expat network after 5 years. It's probably the same in any group, afterall, even just for selfish reasons, why would someone not want to learn the local language and eventually find a social network that includes locals.

Ironically I think the only group who doesn't integrate on mass are the British/german/Finnish/Swedish retirees in much of Southern Spain. They really have made their own ghettos...

 

[Frontstep]

It's my attitude? Cheers... tell me what's up with it then..

I speak French tolerably well (according to neighbours) and try to avoid English when in France but apparently thats the wrong attitude.
My neighbours are French (and speak no English) invited us for dinner at new year and we all had a lovely evening speaking French but apparently that's the wrong attitude.
My neighbours use two of my barnsto store their firewood but apparently thats the wrong attitude.
We took them to a local vineyard and bought them some wine as a thank you but apparently thats the wrong attitude.
Our neighbours emailed us to assure us the house was fine after a major storm where several houses had roofs blown off but apparently I have the wrong attitude.


Errh "your" as in belonging to or associated with any person in general.
Yes I'm using expats to work on a few things on my house but that's because I don't have the confidence to be sure I'm asking for the right thing in French. For example how would you say "can you repoint the end wall and the internal pillar and while you're at it run a new light above the dining table?". My French sadly is not that good yet.

It's a very different thing trying to join a culture different to your own compared to just going on holiday. Most holiday areas have plenty of people who speak English for a start.
Not always the case in rural areas.

Ever tried opening a foreign bank account? Or arranging gas, water and electric bills? How about applying for a foreign mortgage? Or arranging broadband? Or arranging a mooring for the boat? Or any of the other multitude of things that actually living somewhere entails? It's a lot different to just ordering a meal, asking where the nearest bar is or finding your hotel room.

If not try it sometime. It's not easy and the fellow expats are your source of information and assistance. Perfectly natural. They've done it, know the pitfalls, speak your native language (and often the local language) and can make things much easier.
It's natural to seek them out and form an expat community. Then as your own confidence and ability grows you aid others joining the community as well and it perpetuates.

As for raiding the tax payers coffers try researching the facts.

Errh "your" as in belonging to or associated with any person in general

Or should I add to my integration message not believing the world now revolves around you.

Tax absolutely firm on facts, new migrants have not made historical contributions to countries infrastructure and that goes for some of my relatives propping up Caribbean and Spanish playgrounds.
They seem to think "6 weeks of mortgage" payments gets them a share of the "house"

 

[LostKiwi]

Errh "your" as in belonging to or associated with any person in general

Or should I add to my integration message not believing the world now revolves around you.

Tax absolutely firm on facts, new migrants have not made historical contributions to countries infrastructure and that goes for some of my relatives propping up Caribbean and Spanish playgrounds.
They seem to think "6 weeks of mortgage" payments gets them a share of the "house"

'Your' in the context you used it most definitely referred to me as an individual. If it was the 'Royal ' Your the sentence makes no sense.

As for the world revolving around me no it doesn't. Never has, never will, don't want it to as people who know me are well are aware.

Instead of looking at public coffers on an individual level perhaps look at it as an overall level. If you look at it from the individual level then you really should only criticise on the individual level and not tar all immigrants with the same brush.

Here's something to get you started:
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration

Incidentally you've been quite vocal about muslim immigrants lately - yet they are the ones we are not going to prevent coming here when we leave the EU. Instead we're blocking (from the article above) highly trained and skilled EU workers.

 

[DREAMER NO2]

crap

Well, were shot if we do , and shot down if we dont. Government having their own back on those that voted brexit. I bet the rest of the world laugh their eyes up at this lot we have in the driving seat ..A bkind man can see better than out mps . Put them all together, and they still wont have one good one .

 

[prwales]

The wrangling over EU citizens being allowed to stay in the UK, and the fate of the alcohol soaked arthritic million in the Spanish Costa's gives Spain considerable leverage should they want Gibraltar back or even just shared sovereignty... Another potential blow to our Government's prestige

 

[Craiglxviii]

The wrangling over EU citizens being allowed to stay in the UK, and the fate of the alcohol soaked arthritic million in the Spanish Costa's gives Spain considerable leverage should they want Gibraltar back or even just shared sovereignty... Another potential blow to our Government's prestige

Gib is like the Falklands. The people living there want to stay in the UK.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....posal-for-joint-sovereignty-to-save-eu-status

We cannot simply "give it away" any more even if we wanted to- which we expressly don't for a number of strategic reasons. That would be a government- felling disaster. "U.K. plc makes 170,000 Gibraltarians homeless" etc. (number made up).

 

[Taffy7hfa]

The wrangling over EU citizens being allowed to stay in the UK, and the fate of the alcohol soaked arthritic million in the Spanish Costa's gives Spain considerable leverage should they want Gibraltar back or even just shared sovereignty... Another potential blow to our Government's prestige

And not a single word of Spanish between them ........except maybe "hola"

 

[prwales]

Gib is like the Falklands. The people living there want to stay in the UK.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....posal-for-joint-sovereignty-to-save-eu-status

We cannot simply "give it away" any more even if we wanted to- which we expressly don't for a number of strategic reasons. That would be a government- felling disaster. "U.K. plc makes 170,000 Gibraltarians homeless" etc. (number made up).

shared sovereignty would be the useful fig leaf, its inhabitants also want to remain in the EU

 

[Frontstep]

And not a single word of Spanish between them ........except maybe "hola"

I have family in Spain they have integrated and learnt the language they certainly don't follow the Bingo and Sangria set.

Mind you Golf is played

 

[Craiglxviii]

shared sovereignty would be the useful fig leaf, its inhabitants also want to remain in the EU

The trade off will be along the lines of, a potentially easier Brexit settlement versus maintaining strategic control of the SLOC into and out of the Med. That's a real biggie.

 

[prwales]

The trade off will be along the lines of, a potentially easier Brexit settlement versus maintaining strategic control of the SLOC into and out of the Med. That's a real biggie.

joint sovereignty, Spaniards man the border and crack down on the smuggling, RN keeps its naval base if a success it could be a model for the Falklands

 

[Craiglxviii]

joint sovereignty, Spaniards man the border and crack down on the smuggling, RN keeps its naval base if a success it could be a model for the Falklands

A war in living memory, I don't think the latter would wash. Besides which it's very clearly upto the Stillbens which sphere of influence they want to be in, and they've chosen the UK. Very strongly and vociferously.

On Gib... we tend not to "do" joint sovereignty. I can only think of Diego Garcia nowadays and there are no civvies there. Keeping the base means keeping the fortress of the Rock, all the missile batteries and if we're goi g to do that we may as well keep the whole lot...