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Brexit

Discussion in 'Politics' started by prwales, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. steve_k243

    steve_k243 Senior Member

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    Work permits and a NT tax code? I can't see many losing their jobs as I very much doubt they are fulfilling unskilled job specs and could prove difficult to replace with locals.
     
  2. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    We are a strange cowardly lot lately, at one time we ran a huge empire from England now we have to "make friends" with countries who don't want us to stop giving hand outs to their nationals.

    Cameron is crawling around Europe pleading with other countries leaders to run the country he was put in charge of.

    It seems that no matter what he comes back with the other member states can veto it.

    Which countries would vote for their nationals to stop receiving handouts ?
     
  3. steve_k243

    steve_k243 Senior Member

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    Really, we've had a war in Europe (Balkans) and atrocities akin to, but not on the scale of WW2. The movement of the EU and NATO some 1500km to the east of the old cold war borders has also irked Putin somewhat.
     
  4. Xtractorfan

    Xtractorfan Senior Member

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    Who really knows. Loads of people will vote on the immigration issue, and this will inevitably be 'out' with no thought for the other issues which is a great pity.
    Cameron is playing a dangerous game, all because he will be opting out of politics before the next election and he feels he needs something to be remembered by...He really is a lightweigh when negotiating with other leaders. good at the old spin when talking to journalists but you can see he is making it up as he goes along. always concerned about the 'hard working people' of britian, whom he and Osborne waste no time in screwing everywhich way possible.
     
  5. ajlsl600

    ajlsl600 Senior Member

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    i am on the fence right now as i live most of the time in france , but i do think the uk should have control of its borders and i dont think anyone should get benifits until they have paid in for a while and i dont think the uk should pay benifits for non or short term taxpayers to export to their country of origin, unless those same ,value benifits are claimable by brits in that same territory . i think the euro /pound would take a short term hammering until things settled down which would,nt help me much , but then its gone up and down 2x betweem 1.45 /1.23 since i have been here , i have managed....
     
  6. nicholas15

    nicholas15 Senior Member

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    Be in the club - or not

    As I explain to continental friends and colleagues the English (unlike other parts of the UK) have no concept of being ruled by another power since we have not had an invasion since 1066. On continental Europe history has left a very different mark on people. Therefore the "motivation" for membership is different.
    Also most of Europe is ruled by "Napoleonic" law which says that you can only do something if there is a law to permit it whereas in the UK our approach is more you can do what you like unless there is a law which says you cannot. Again this difference explains why there is a difference in motivation for how membership works.
    The recent "negotiations" are an excellent cases study in how the European Union wants to work; a country can state what it wants to do, but it is the Commission which makes the legal proposals of what to do then other European bodies e.g. the Parliament need to agree. As the Euro project illustrates, eventually ever closer economic co-operation requires ever closer political cooperation. Look at the problems that a sovereign Greece has in matching national economic policy versus European economic policy. Many other European countries also have grave doubts about the mechanics of government of the European Union.

    In fact, IMHO, the Cameron negotiations have all been secondary to the fundamental issue of sovereignty. So there is a choice - does Britain want to be "in the club" and abide by club rules or be "outside the club" and make its own way in the world. But is about time we finally made up our mind to be in or out.
     
  7. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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  8. ajlsl600

    ajlsl600 Senior Member

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    tony benn was not stupid on europe , but he was part of a government that cancelled the tsr2 project , and forever lost the uk a tech lead in aviation and had us cap in hand to an american project the never performed then and preety much since .
     
  9. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    Putin is a modern day version of Stalin so he'll be irked by almost anything.

    As for the Balkans conflict that was before the Balkan states joined the EU, therefore it could be argued that given there has been no conflict since, the EU is successful at ensuring a peaceful Europe.
     
  10. steve_k243

    steve_k243 Senior Member

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    He was also part of the government that kept Concorde on track when the Treasury were getting the jitters. Concorde was initiated well before we joined the EU.
     
  11. turbopete

    turbopete Senior Member

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    so, what exactly did those people give their lives for? WW1 and WW2 were fought to keep us all from being ruled by Germany, in 1 form or another. no one wanted it then, no one wants it now. the difference really is, as far as i can see, that this time we get to decide with a VOTE rather than a WAR whether we want to be ruled by Germany or not!
     
  12. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    UK Imports from EU 17bn a month
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    i.e. no where near three times as much. I suppose you have provided a great example of your first statement though!

    Still on the fence myself. I don´t think it makes much difference other than changes to society will be slightly more difficult "in" than "out" and for that reason erring on "out", though can´t really see how Westminster will use any newly acquired powers more positvely/competently.
     
  13. ajlsl600

    ajlsl600 Senior Member

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    tho i fully supported concorde , there were not really many of those either ! and the yanks screwed. us over on that, for as long as they could . noise ect , but they had no issues with their f/ bombers going out of the uk and waking up the whole country !! dont think their f111, the poorly spec,d /sourced replacement for our tsr2 was very quiet either. in reality we are and were simply an unsinkable aircraft carrier . now we are getting their ****e , lemon vt aircraft at $$$ ,because we dont have an alternative and why pray, is that !!!
     
  14. steve_k243

    steve_k243 Senior Member

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    My major dislike of the EU, those at the top are not accountable to the electorate.

    I was told recently by a guy at work that we shouldn't even have a referendum, because "it's too important an issue for anyone BUT politicians to decide on"

    I despair sometimes.
     
  15. steve_k243

    steve_k243 Senior Member

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    The OP quite clearly stated "71 years with no European war" The fact remains Europe has had a particularly nasty war in FR Yugoslavia.
     
  16. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    I have some sympathy with that view. There are a lot of people who are incapable/unwilling/too bored/too jingoistic/too liberal to understand all the implications of what it will all mean.
     
  17. RichardCC

    RichardCC Senior Member

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    OUT

    I want control of our borders. I want control of our judicial system, especially so we can deport foreign 'proven in law' foreign criminals.

    I want our elected parliament to decide on our behalf what happens in OUR country, not unelected members of a foreign commission deciding. If parliament upsets the British people we can vote them out at the next election, we can't do that with the European Commission

    End of rant
     
  18. lwbnick

    lwbnick Senior Member

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    If we leave does that end the TTIP nightmare?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  19. PovertySpec

    PovertySpec Senior Member

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    It would, one hopes.

    Although as nobody who has been able to look at it has been able to say anything about it, nobody knows.

    It's been described as by the corporations, for the corporations.
     
  20. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

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    In but without all the bureaucratic bull that goes with it, we need to take control of our borders and laws
     

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