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Brexit

Discussion in 'Politics' started by prwales, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. M80

    M80 Senior Member

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    We have our chief going to Europe to negotiate for near nowt and can't get it.

    We are expected to be content that citizens of lower level economies wish to work here, or not, and send money for their offsprings back home to them. That is they aren't even supporting them here. Likely they get more from our child benefit than they might earn back home.
    Somehow the state they were born in don't wish to pay this benefit, don't wish to pay us for this benefit for the child that is in their lands but expect our taxes to cover the cost.

    After days and nights of pretend negotiating at a cost that probably exceeds the cost of the benefit anyway they still have more to discuss.
    There are far more important issues to be worked not only in Europe but for Cameron here, at home. But they continue to cost us a flippin fortune for next to nowt.
    The MEP's of 28 states are doing very nicely and continue to demonstrate how clumsy and ill perceived this oversized disorganisation has become.

    I have been waiting for the argument that shows me good reason for 'in', the last few days have demonstrated to me that my cynicism is well founded.

    For what they are about to receive why should we be so ****** grateful?
     
  2. samie

    samie Member

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    with the changes made to the doctors contract and possibility of leaving the EU.....I will definitely change career due to the loss of the EWTD.

    i vote to stay in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  3. jasonyw

    jasonyw Banned

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    Wasting time, talk is cheap

    Out

    Why are we giving money to the poles, the Czech!
     
  4. Flyinspanner

    Flyinspanner Senior Member

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    Well a Polish squadron (based at RAFNortholt) had the highest kill rate of all squadrons during the Battle of Britain. Brave souls.

    The EU is our biggest market, do you think Europe will still buy as much from us if we leave?...will they have a hissy fit and increase import tariffs for our goods? - Where else will suddenly decide to by billions of £s worth of UK goods?
    Many jobs would be lost.
    Who will pick up that tab?

    As it is our govt would like to sell off the NHS, delay your pension as long as possible, neuter your union representation, so that you have to work day and nights for peanuts so that the rich can get ever richer. Remove your right to strike, remove your right to protest (even peacefully).
    Whilst they award themselves 11% pay increase whilst telling nurses that they can only have a maximum of 1%

    Frankly I currently trust Europe, the court of human rights, and EU Legislation more than I trust the conservatives.

    Rant over.....quite cathartic :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  5. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    Well Mr Cameron has triumphantly returned with some fudge from his holiday.
    It will settle transiently on the lips and then as always pad the hips.
    A sweet temporary retreat from the uncomfortable reality, no long term reforms nothing that can't be overturned he should have stayed at home and sent some one else.

    In his parties manifesto;

    We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years.”

    We are clear about what we want from Europe. We say: yes to the Single Market. Yes to turbocharging free trade. Yes to working together where we are stronger together than alone. Yes to a family of nation states, all part of a European Union – but whose interests, crucially, are guaranteed whether inside the Euro or out. No to ‘ever closer union.’ No to a constant flow of power to Brussels. No to unnecessary interference.



    Anyone who can reconcile the above with what he came back with can come and plat sawdust for me, I was hoping for some real reform :(
     
  6. littlebrooklyn

    littlebrooklyn Senior Member

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  7. toby1

    toby1 Senior Member

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    Free trade with Europe was for what the common market was intended and that's fine. I think that's a good idea.

    But we have gone way too far past that with political integration, a legal court which trumps ours and the madness of the common agricultural policy, and fiscal union amongst others.

    The UK has a big enough economy to trade on terms we can negociate with other EU countries without spiting ourselves.

    Alas, I fear Cameron is too wet to do a deal and will fudge it, but I haven't read any finer details yet. I'll vote for 'out'.
     
  8. PovertySpec

    PovertySpec Senior Member

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    And we're off! July 23rd referendum, cabinet split allowed, it's a free for all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
  9. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    We have handed over power to the EU to fully control our benefit system in the future.
    We have given up all chance of controlling our borders.
    Its much worse than I expected.
     
  10. range rover

    range rover Senior Member

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    I think you will find it's June 23rd......:rolleyes:
     
  11. PovertySpec

    PovertySpec Senior Member

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    According to Dave he nailed it!*

    [​IMG]

    *barely got out of the car park.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
  12. Chrishazle

    Chrishazle Senior Member

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    Voting to join the common market all those years ago, as I did, seemed a very good idea. We never got a vote on whether or not to join the EU - until now. With what has happened over the intervening years, the only way to regain our sovereignity is to vote OUT. It will take time to unscramble the things the EU - European court of Justice etc has imposed on us, but we will be better for it.
     
  13. OP
    prwales

    prwales Banned

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    No, our Government will drop its trousers for the USA at every opportunity, its other Eu States reservations that are most likely to derail it.
     
  14. OP
    prwales

    prwales Banned

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    I am not convinced either way; the talk of sovereignty is a red herring, if we aren't in thrall to the EU we would be just American puppets as we were b4 we joined the EEC back in the 1970's. Joining hasn't worked out well though and the UK as a manufacturing nation is in serious decline albeit with some successful aspects [weapons].
    Political power in the UK now lies with the financial interests in the City of London whereas in the 1970's it was the CBI that was perhaps not all powerful but very much pro Europe, somewhere where they thought we could sell out goods. The City spivs though think that they can continue to make money by lending, gambling, investing, speculating and what ever else they do in or out of the EU and they are probably right. UK areas who do rely on what little manufacturing we have left don't interest them in the slightest and are being left out to dry as the recent steel closures amply demonstrate. I find the debate such as it is to be meaningless, but perhaps it'll improve as the weeks pass, the best bit is of course watching the Tory Party tear itself apart.
     
  15. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    Our real dear leaders (The EU) are negotiating in private over TTIP but I suppose if your bending over the bed waiting to be shafted by a big bear its probably appropriate to give your yourself and us in private.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    For those who don't follow such things and who can blame you :


    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html
     
  16. PovertySpec

    PovertySpec Senior Member

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    It's a sham so far. Exit 2 hated lightning conductors: Flailing Grayling .. Ian Duncan Smith

    Gove, sent to watch over them?

    Problem is, nobody wants to be seen on the losing side, despite what's best for the UK or the electorate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
  17. jonthetourist

    jonthetourist Senior Member

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    I am a floating voter on the referendum, but this really worries me.

    Much of the manufacturing we do have is driven by foreign investment into the UK as a stable, creative, relatively low cost base.

    One of the big questions is where an exit leaves the UK in that regard. The North East without Nissan, for example, is a very scary prospect.

    Imagine being the Board of XYZWorldwide Inc, looking for a new European manufacturing base in 2020. Britain has just exited the EU, so could face export tariffs to Europe; and Jeremy Corbyn is leading the polls with a policy which includes punitive taxes on international corporations ( a likely vote-winner in the Labour party). Do you go with Birmingham, and see what happens? Or take a safer bet with Eindhoven, or Dusseldorf or even Bratislava?

    That seems a more important issue than whether Pavel and Pavla get child benefit, but not likely to get many newspaper headlines.

    Interesting Times
     
  18. John Laidlaw

    John Laidlaw Senior Member

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    ^^^
    I sympathise with this view, stability is needed at this time in commerce at least, and whether we like it or not, that's what funds our country and always has.
    Setting up any other viable trading cooperative outside the EU, even the ex commonwealth, will take many years and at a time when oil prices are driving economies further down, it would be commercial suicide to exit now.
     
  19. M80

    M80 Senior Member

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    Following an exit any penalties applied by Europe would see a tit for tat response.
    Europe then lose more trade to us than prevent from us. As we are supposedly wealthy those companies would be pushing for that trade to be restored, or not lost in the first place as the likes of Greece can only buy with the loans provided by Europe.

    More interesting would be Europe trying to sell us our exit, I wonder what costs they would try to justify to allow us to leave. I also doubt Cameron would be gutsy enough to say "you've had more than enough from us over the years, naf off."
     
  20. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    Literally an afternoons work to set things in motion to change.

    Our current political culture has insidiously given away leadership, nothing can be done without referring back to Brussels for its permission.
    Britain is overwhelmed by uncontrolled immigration.
    Our previously proud history of helping genuine refugee's is now subsumed beneath economic migrants creating new slums in Britain's towns and cities overwhelming our public services.

    We now don't elect Prime Ministers we elect Euro PA's our Prime Minister proudly returns from seemingly endless talks around Europe with the EU's permission to determine our spending and laws for a "grace period" of seven years subject to ECJ and EU votes.

    On the periphery of Europe sits Turkey will they achieve economic parity before joining ? not a chance that's another 78 million with the right to move in.

    Britains business leaders have managed very well to trade worldwide and the reasons for siting factories here is predominately because we are still very good at making things if only we were allowed to do more.

    Look around your house and see all the things that manage to get here from countries without EU membership.

    The scare tactics of Britain being alone and isolated if they don't stay in the "gang" simply doesn't wash .

    From Camerons creep around Europe we clearly are alone and isolated in the EU already and we only asked to run a bit of our own countries affairs and failed miserably.

    The grand social experiment continues from its Socialist Brussels base sucking away power from its member countries.
     

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