Brexit

[Frontstep]

No - and we know that there are people hanging in there even though they campaigned and presumably voted to remain (e.g.: Amber Rudd). But (one of the many) reasons Mayhem gets up my nose is the hypocrisy that goes with it. A few months ago I posted a list of her speeches as a pro-remainer along with the same comments twisted around to be pro Brexit. If she had ever said my opinion was X and now it's Y it might be acceptable but as it stands, imo it's pure self interest.

Like Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[Yugguy]

You still haven't sent me any posting where I said this. The problem is I only post the truth about Brexit.

You still haven't grasped that a belief that it is not all negative does NOT mean a belief that it is all positive.

 

[Frontstep]

This morning for a change I put "this morning" on the tv and listened to Richard where's Judi ? Madeley complaining we hadn't achieved anything in our Brexit negotiations egged on by Ms Reid smiling away beside him.

I smiled and realised today I meet someone from the I.O.M, we could both be accused of the same thing because we haven't finished yet, isn't it a good job we are all different otherwise who would make the business to pay the bills ?
Imagine if we relied on people who think you haven't done anything because you haven't finished ?
Imagine if we relied on people who don't question contracts or the costs ?

 

[Naraic]

This morning for a change I put "this morning" on the tv and listened to Richard where's Judi ? Madeley complaining we hadn't achieved anything in our Brexit negotiations egged on by Ms Reid smiling away beside him.

I smiled and realised today I meet someone from the I.O.M, we could both be accused of the same thing because we haven't finished yet, isn't it a good job we are all different otherwise who would make the business to pay the bills ?
Imagine if we relied on people who think you haven't done anything because you haven't finished ?
Imagine if we relied on people who don't question contracts or the costs ?

Why do you always sneer at others thoughts on Brexit? Some of us really fear it...but you sneer.

You think we have made progress? Will this be your attitude right up to the day before the two years is up, when, if we haven't...it'll be too late? Has no one the legitimate right to query things...or do you think asking questions will actually affect things?


You are clearly gifted with great insight into the future, most of us are not. But if you do wish to crush debate then just continue as you have done from day one...sneer.

 

[Frontstep]

Why do you always sneer at others thoughts on Brexit? Some of us really fear it...but you sneer.

You think we have made progress? Will this be your attitude right up to the day before the two years is up, when, if we haven't...it'll be too late? Has no one the legitimate right to query things...or do you think asking questions will actually affect things?


You are clearly gifted with great insight into the future, most of us are not. But if you do wish to crush debate then just continue as you have done from day one...sneer.

If you had read my post and thought about it for a short while you would see the blindingly obvious problem with Richard Madely condemning something that isn't anywhere near finished.
The sneering is something undertaken by the remoaners who look actively for every opportunity to run Britain down I on the other hand am optimistic about our future.
If supporting your country, supporting democratic decisions and being optimistic and not taking to those who constantly seek to denigrate our Country and its democracy is a problem to you maybe you should consider your position.

 

[Naraic]

The problem isn't that it isn't finished, it's, surely, that it hasn't even started and the clock will continue to tick. We are allowed to express our concerns...or would you rather that everyone else just shut up and you can speak to yourself?

A no deal would be a disaster for this country...tell me why it wouldn't.

 

[Yugguy]

I think the talk of no deal is simply posturing to appease the very right-wing elements within the party whose votes they would need to push bills through.

Of course it would be a disaster but is that REALLY going to happen?

 

[Naraic]

I think the talk of no deal is simply posturing to appease the very right-wing elements within the party whose votes they would need to push bills through.

Of course it would be a disaster but is that REALLY going to happen?

I certainly hope not. WTO rules would not suit us and would not be quick.

 

[davemercedes]

No, you post speculation and your opinion, there is a difference.

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking about a false/incorrect comment made about me.
- So if you can't contribute to that conversation, just go away.

 

[davemercedes]

I certainly hope not. WTO rules would not suit us and would not be quick.

We all hope it won't happen.
- But who started the "no deal is better" line in the first place? The same one who expects the EU to roll over now.

Meanwhile: Millions miss bills as finances bite
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41655915http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41655915

Not one ore two but... 4.1 MILLION !

This is not purely a direct result of Brexit (but it sure isn't helping) and I would have thought Mrs May would be doing something to help all those "injustices" and JAMS she likes to talk about... because 4.1 million obviously aren't just about managing!

 

[Frontstep]

The problem isn't that it isn't finished, it's, surely, that it hasn't even started and the clock will continue to tick. We are allowed to express our concerns...or would you rather that everyone else just shut up and you can speak to yourself?

A no deal would be a disaster for this country...tell me why it wouldn't.

More than happy for you to support the UK and mention some of the positives about leaving the EU if you can't think of any then you have a problem.
I am certainly happy to say the EU was a great idea as a trading bloc and the loss of that is a great shame.
It was the state building at all costs and personal vanity ambitions that ruined it.
No deal on leaving would not be ideal but not a disaster companies will find a way through and make their own arrangements as Australia, America, China have done with the EU.
The only people looking to create barriers are the EU.

 

[Naraic]

More than happy for you to support the UK and mention some of the positives about leaving the EU if you can't think of any then you have a problem.
I am certainly happy to say the EU was a great idea as a trading bloc and the loss of that is a great shame.
It was the state building at all costs and personal vanity ambitions that ruined it.
No deal on leaving would not be ideal but not a disaster companies will find a way through and make their own arrangements as Australia, America, China have done with the EU.
The only people looking to create barriers are the EU.

That is your opinion and as such should not be expressed as a fact.

Don't you get it I don't agree with you. That's a fact, it doesn't make me a bad person nor mean I have problems...I just disagree.

I also think we would need a better strategy in the event of a no deal than individual companies finding a way.

 

[Yugguy]

The EU should have STAYED as a trading bloc, as a common market. That was all it ever needed to be. The federalists wanted more though.

 

[Craiglxviii]

That is your opinion and as such should not be expressed as a fact.

Don't you get it I don't agree with you. That's a fact, it doesn't make me a bad person nor mean I have problems...I just disagree.

I also think we would need a better strategy in the event of a no deal than individual companies finding a way.

That will happen. It will just take some time. The whole point of the fear behind no deal is that companies will have to do just this.... but we actually do know the WTO rules anyway https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/tariffs_e/tariff_data_e.htm so it is a fairly procedural matter to compare to existing EU rules.

 

[AMGeed]

- But who started the "no deal is better" line in the first place? The same one who expects the EU to roll over now.

Would you prefer it if the UK were to "roll over" instead and agree to every demand the EU are making?

Mrs May was correct in thinking no deal is better than a bad deal but should have kept that to herself. IMO of course

 

[Frontstep]

That is your opinion and as such should not be expressed as a fact.

Don't you get it I don't agree with you. That's a fact, it doesn't make me a bad person nor mean I have problems...I just disagree.

I also think we would need a better strategy in the event of a no deal than individual companies finding a way.

Again you misuse the English language to make a point, from the outset of today's problems you have with my post, pointing out that an unfinished deal is exactly that it is not sneering as you put it;

"speak in a contemptuous or mocking manner" it is simply pointing out the error of the argument, the sneering was done by Mr Madeley in an attempt to appease his media cronies.
I went on to point out by his twisted logic I and many many others will achieve nothing today.
If you cannot see any good in Brexit however small then you do indeed have a problem because we have signed up to leave, so do you carry on disagreeing with the future or adapt that is for you to decide I am adapting because sure as eggs is eggs we won't get everything I want from the process.

 

[davemercedes]

Would you prefer it if the UK were to "roll over" instead and agree to every demand the EU are making?

Mrs May was correct in thinking no deal is better than a bad deal but should have kept that to herself. IMO of course

I don't believe either side had even thought of a cliff-edge style "no deal" until it was threatened by you know who. And imo a no-deal result would not be better - I think it would be a complete and absolute disaster.

In either case, nobody mentions (and the Brexquitters conveniently omitted) the costs involved in buying the land, building and setting up massive customs posts etc at every port, the administration costs of other tariff controls like the WTO and replacing the frontier staff May got rid off (and then we wondered why immigration was out of control!).

But that aggressive "no deal" remark seems to have set the tone for all the negotiations from day one. Look at the reports of May's latest dinner meeting - even the Netherlands who have most to lose, were quite supportive of the EU stand. And they're a nation with a sense of fair play (quite like us really) who actually like us!

In answer to your question though, our negotiator should negotiate, not take things to an impasse. And the points at issue were all known before May sent in the Article 50 Notice. So what have they been doing for 15 months (or 11 moths if you discard the first six where they did nothing but squabble, proclaim stupid, childish aims like wanting a "Red, white and blue Brexit" and call a failure of a general election.
- Still, at least the election showed that we weren't as broke as we've been told because Mayhem shook the magic money tree and down fell a whopping £1BN!

 

[M80]

I also think we would need a better strategy in the event of a no deal than individual companies finding a way.

I can agree with that.
The 'No Deal' statement by May was designed, I believe so may not be fact (but I still believe it), was to point out the the intransigent eu that we don't 'have to' accede to their wishes / demands / expectations / fantasies and that life will go on regardless.

To somewhat publicly explore the possibilities of a future w/o a mutually beneficial eu trading agreement may help them to realise that we are calling their bluff.
No one wants a non agreement, it isn't even to the benefit of the eu in trying to show all other members that leaving is unaffordable.
Taking our trade from some of their regions that are in need of it will only weaken some of their members positions financially and ultimately politically. Of course it won't be doing us any good either, in the short term.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Would you prefer it if the UK were to "roll over" instead and agree to every demand the EU are making?

Mrs May was correct in thinking no deal is better than a bad deal but should have kept that to herself. IMO of course

If Mrs May is a Realist then “No deal is better than a bad deal” is self- evident truth. To a Liberalist Euro, “A bad deal is better than no deal” would be the same thing.

The point is one of political science worldview. Are we Realists? Are we Liberalists? Communists? Anarchists? We tend towards Realism as a nation because we’re grown up and have a long history of being in the upper ranks of developed nations. So, Realism says that for every decision we make as a nation, we must first ask, “Does this benefit us in any way?” If the answer is yes, then “By how much, short/ med/ long term goal and in what way?”

To a Realist, no deal means that we are free to make the rules as we go along. A bad deal means that we know it is not in our best interests.

Sticking my professional negotiating hat on, I’ll go with making my own deal to suit me over a deal that expressly doesn’t suit me any day of the week.

 

[davemercedes]

If Mrs May is a Realist then “No deal is better than a bad deal” is self- evident truth. To a Liberalist Euro, “A bad deal is better than no deal” would be the same thing.

The point is one of political science worldview. Are we Realists? Are we Liberalists? Communists? Anarchists? We tend towards Realism as a nation because we’re grown up and have a long history of being in the upper ranks of developed nations. So, Realism says that for every decision we make as a nation, we must first ask, “Does this benefit us in any way?” If the answer is yes, then “By how much, short/ med/ long term goal and in what way?”

To a Realist, no deal means that we are free to make the rules as we go along. A bad deal means that we know it is not in our best interests.

Sticking my professional negotiating hat on, I’ll go with making my own deal to suit me over a deal that expressly doesn’t suit me any day of the week.

I don't think she's a realist Craig, she follows advice and/or goes for what she thinks is most beneficial for her and the Tory party thus the general election was called with one of her advisors being David Davis (at least he admitted to that in an interview). But on the "no deal" front, if she had engaged what independent brain she has before opening her mouth (before negotiations had even started) she would probably have realised it was inflammatory and bound to cause a "closed" response.

Don't forget I said right from the beginning, no matter what happens she'll be saying "I tried my best etc..."

btw:
Did you see the recent interview where she was asked if she would vote remain or leave now (three times). She stammered and went blank but refused to answer.