Brexit

[M80]

btw:
Did you see the recent interview where she was asked if she would vote remain or leave now (three times). She stammered and went blank but refused to answer.[/QUOTE]

Even before that clumsy interview I was of the opinion that she isn't a true leader.
That interview puts her on a par with De Abbott.

But I don't see a leadership challenge, yet. And definitely I don't see a general election as being good for the country.
Who is a reasonable alternative, at this time? Please don't suggest Corbyn, whilst he 'really' does desire to leave the eu he only knows how to anally ingest their offerings.

Would we want the self serving Boris?
Maybe the tea boy Gove?
What would we call the wannabe Shapps, or Green?
And Mr Davies, it seems to me, already has the power, pre retirement.

WE have no say on what the Brexit future is, it will happen no matter what we or the politicians argue about.
Pull together as a united force and Brexit becomes a far better outcome. The eu has weaknesses to exploit.

 

[Frontstep]

What did anyone expect her to say ?
her answer hesitantly given, no doubt, was perfect.
If anyone would like to suggest another answer..............

The problem is "the lawyers" are negotiating a divorce with a vindictive control freak spouse in the background.

As anyone who has ever negotiated anything on a high level knows there are often weeks of plateau's on the roller coaster ride.

The notion that we could withdraw smoothly to a strict timetable is just odd.

We have to have an endstop of no deal to go in with out it is reckless, no deal is certainly better than a bad deal.

Floating is better than drowning.

 

[LostKiwi]

The problem is "the lawyers" are negotiating a divorce with a vindictive control freak spouse

Nice way to describe Mrs May.

 

[keefysher]

Nice way to describe Mrs May.

I took that to mean Herr Juncker, he who gazes lovingly at the glass of red wine at dinner the other night when Mrs Mayhem was there. I saw a copy of said photo with comment in the chippy last night. There was a comment about how many wives longed for a husband that paid them the kind of loving care and public affection as Juncker does to the glass of wine, hic. Doubtless some one will find it and post it

 

[Frontstep]

I think he doesn't want her to leave him they used to be good friends but his drinking was too much for her.

Physical symptoms of alcoholism, aside from the immediate withdrawal symptoms experienced upon cessation of regular use, include:

• Broken capillaries on the nose and face.
• Yellowing of the eyes and skin, indicating a potential problem with liver functioning.
• Breath that smells of alcohol on a consistent basis.

 

[Yugguy]

Pull together as a united force and Brexit becomes a far better outcome. The eu has weaknesses to exploit.

YES!

 

[davemercedes]

btw:
Did you see the recent interview where she was asked if she would vote remain or leave now (three times). She stammered and went blank but refused to answer.

Even before that clumsy interview I was of the opinion that she isn't a true leader.
That interview puts her on a par with De Abbott.

But I don't see a leadership challenge, yet. And definitely I don't see a general election as being good for the country.
Who is a reasonable alternative, at this time? Please don't suggest Corbyn, whilst he 'really' does desire to leave the eu he only knows how to anally ingest their offerings.

Would we want the self serving Boris?
Maybe the tea boy Gove?
What would we call the wannabe Shapps, or Green?
And Mr Davies, it seems to me, already has the power, pre retirement.

WE have no say on what the Brexit future is, it will happen no matter what we or the politicians argue about.
Pull together as a united force and Brexit becomes a far better outcome. The eu has weaknesses to exploit.[/QUOTE]

Woke up for a bathroom call about 04:00 (it's my age!).. Couldn't sleep and put the TV on and found myself watching Hardtalk. They were talking (Brexit and other politics) with Emily Thornbury, Shadow Foreign Sec. Never heard of her before. But she recounted a story that she was visiting Europe in the week when May made her "I don't want this... I won't accept that.... No deal is better..." speech. Her European partners (more or less) said (to Thornbury): "It's a waste of time talking to us now - there's no if, or what we offer, she's slammed the door and the only thing we don't know is whether she put up 1 finger or two on the way out. It's all finished now".

I've never heard this story before but it just bears out my opinion that she slammed the door on negotiations before it even started and caused massive bad feeling and destroyed any chance of goodwill in one fell swoop. Very sad.

So far as replacement for Mayhem - just about anybody who can appreciate the need to protect just under £800 Bn of trade and approach negotiations openly and fairly and would go about running the country more openly would be better. Just look at last night's fiasco - Labour can say that not one Tory supported her over suspending the benefits roll out because she found out how many would vote against the government and she bottled it and instructed them to abstain!)
...and May has the temerity to talk down about solving injustices!

I wouldn't be surprised if she's advised to call a "back me or sack me" confidence vote because no Tory (even Boris) wants the poison chalice... but I guess that might bring about their greatest worry i.e: a general election.

And what do we "pull together" higher costs, continually lower incomes or what? I've been repeatedly told that everything about leaving is advantageous and pointing out the hard truth is negative - but imo that is purely down to none being so blind as those who don't want to see.

 

[Yugguy]

Emily Thornbury, Shadow Foreign Sec - who is of course wholly behind the government and would never put a spin on a story...

 

[davemercedes]

Near

Emily Thornbury, Shadow Foreign Sec - who is of course wholly behind the government and would never put a spin on a story...

Nearly as much behind the government as Boris, Hammond and all the other squabbling kiddies!

- But her story could be dug around by journalists (and they would if they were looking for dirt).

 

[Yugguy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41672097

Not May, Merkel.

"Angela Merkel has said there are "encouraging" signs of progress in Brexit negotiations and suggested trade talks could begin in December."

 

[M80]

Some politicians are worth listening to, even if I don't appreciate their opinion another slant can be good, if intelligent.
De Abbott, waste of space, condescending and no pleasure too listen to. I don't see the intelligence there.
Thornbury, likes the sound of her own polished voice, seen her on a few interviews and QT now and again. Never heard her say anything worth hearing. Although intelligent, I think, she just makes noises.

May is more often a failure in interview, likely why she stayed out of them during the last election and that cost her big votes.
She also doesn't do well under pressure, so apart from it not being her role anyway it's lucky for us that she has delegated the Brexit negotiations.
Even though she doesn't lead too well, imho, I still think it is better for all that she stays where she is for a couple or 3 years. She can then be the fall guy and hand over to another new brush, a few months prior to the next election would be my guess if she can hold out that long.

 

[davemercedes]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41672097

Not May, Merkel.

"Angela Merkel has said there are "encouraging" signs of progress in Brexit negotiations and suggested trade talks could begin in December."

That's rather rehashed old news - I suppose it's a sort of olive branch but imo it's a push back to allow UK to come up with the goods on the areas we (May / Davis) still refuse to negotiate and declare "an impasse". This was first reported when the EU rejected May's last speech but they said they would work "internally" to be ready - so it might be possible in December.

More important is what May actually does about it. Settlement must be made to protect our trade or off we go over that cliff which only the Brexit "maniacs" think would be good for us. I don't remember the numbers - but there was a chart on the TV news last night putting the expected/demanded "divorce" bill in context against the value of trade. And the EU are digging their heels in because they expect us to pay for projects agreed when we were a full member when they made the agreements...

Of course we could negotiate sensibly and maybe offer to stagger final payments over the proposed "transition" period. Or we could refuse to negotiate fully and drive straight off that mythical cliff. But I don't see that cliff fall helping our currency/money/austerity and wages problems (not forgetting the 4.1 m people reported to be in serious debt over the last few days).

 

[davemercedes]

Some politicians are worth listening to, even if I don't appreciate their opinion another slant can be good, if intelligent.
De Abbott, waste of space, condescending and no pleasure too listen to. I don't see the intelligence there.
Thornbury, likes the sound of her own polished voice, seen her on a few interviews and QT now and again. Never heard her say anything worth hearing. Although intelligent, I think, she just makes noises.

May is more often a failure in interview, likely why she stayed out of them during the last election and that cost her big votes.
She also doesn't do well under pressure, so apart from it not being her role anyway it's lucky for us that she has delegated the Brexit negotiations.
Even though she doesn't lead too well, imho, I still think it is better for all that she stays where she is for a couple or 3 years. She can then be the fall guy and hand over to another new brush, a few months prior to the next election would be my guess if she can hold out that long.

I agree but I don't think she can last with the rabble she is supposedly leading for three years. I thought she would have been gone by now.

 

[Xtractorfan]

She would have been gone if the Tories thought that they could win another general election. The only one they believe who can possibly beat Jeremy to no. 10 is Boris, But no one in the Tory party wants him as leader.
And so the sham continues. Mayhem will also take the flack for the very unpopular Universal Credit roll out and even Boris wouldn't want to deal with that. No wonder so many of them go into Banking and Utilities when they leave parliament. Those two industries tend to run like the Tory party, screw the customers, and no one takes the blame.

 

[LostKiwi]

Well finally something vaguely positive on Brexit.
Angela Merkel has indicated she is confident some kind of deal can be done as far as she concerned (but she's only one of 27).
We still need to remember that if Mrs May can't sort out the "divorce bull" and status of EU immigrants already here then that could still be a show stopper. I also have no doubt that if her leadership were challenged then a no deal becomes very likely. That said I don't see Mrs May surviving much past Brexit either.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Well finally something vaguely positive on Brexit.
Angela Merkel has indicated she is confident some kind of deal can be done as far as she concerned (but she's only one of 27).
We still need to remember that if Mrs May can't sort out the "divorce bull" and status of EU immigrants already here then that could still be a show stopper. I also have no doubt that if her leadership were challenged then a no deal becomes very likely. That said I don't see Mrs May surviving much past Brexit either.

And finally the first bit of unhyped media reporting too.

Remember, Germany is 1/27 strictly but the reality is it’s more 10/27 with France representing another 10.

So back to brass tacks, the EU has tacitly admitted that they want trade deals with us PDQ and in order to get them, please can we sort out how much we will pay. That’s actual negotiation and the first real indication we have had of what has been going on- which is to say that, under the table, our diplomats have been engaging with their diplomats to make a politically- palatable deal possible. And given the timeframe we have seen, I’d say that is both credible and a good job. (That represents a huge amount of work...)

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

And finally the first bit of unhyped media reporting too.

Remember, Germany is 1/27 strictly but the reality is it’s more 10/27 with France representing another 10.

So back to brass tacks, the EU has tacitly admitted that they want trade deals with us PDQ and in order to get them, please can we sort out how much we will pay. That’s actual negotiation and the first real indication we have had of what has been going on- which is to say that, under the table, our diplomats have been engaging with their diplomats to make a politically- palatable deal possible. And given the timeframe we have seen, I’d say that is both credible and a good job. (That represents a huge amount of work...)

Totally agree Craig, despite all the posturing and rhetoric a deal HAS to be done the alternative is political suicide for all parties involved, reality dawns you could say

I note the head of Goldman Sachs Europe isn’t happy which I take as a good sign

 

[LostKiwi]

And finally the first bit of unhyped media reporting too.

Remember, Germany is 1/27 strictly but the reality is it’s more 10/27 with France representing another 10.

So back to brass tacks, the EU has tacitly admitted that they want trade deals with us PDQ and in order to get them, please can we sort out how much we will pay. That’s actual negotiation and the first real indication we have had of what has been going on- which is to say that, under the table, our diplomats have been engaging with their diplomats to make a politically- palatable deal possible. And given the timeframe we have seen, I’d say that is both credible and a good job. (That represents a huge amount of work...)

And yet Mrs May is still posturing on and on about a 'No Deal'.
I get the negotiation aspects but it does make her appear intransigent at best and incompetent at worst (as she has asked for help to get the process moving again).

 

[M80]

Last night with QT over, for a change there was 'some' glimmer of reasonable conversation on it last night.
Onto This Week and a more rigorous and sarcastic view of the political goings on.

Last night they had Yanis Varoufakis as a guest, the ex Greek finance minister.
I could never appreciate how Greece having had so much from the eu, and couldn't meet its repayment commitments could demand more from the eu. In true eu style because they could they did, and the threat of failure by Greece was more than the eu wanted to chance. Better it gets deferred until the masses are concentrating on other matters. But Greece wasn't last nights discussion.

I've seen Mr Yanis V before, on Hard Talk if memory serves, and I was surprised for some reason as to how intelligent and cohesive his thoughts and arguments were, last night he was similar.
He raised the question of if the eu is going to fail. All on the sofas agreed that the eu wasn't going to achieve the closer federalism with its desired army.
More relevant in the shorter term, how long don't know, but the Euro was always destined to fail and when that failed the eu was doomed.
There is anti eu dissent across Europe. Even if those nationalist parties don't win the election it's a mistake to think the bad feeling of many millions has gone away and for the election winners to become complacent. Although UKIP are pretty much finished here (some one should tell 'em, outa' kindness) it doesn't mean those that appreciated its purpose are now happy with the state of things. The dissent is just waiting to be given direction, sometimes that becomes an extreme direction, unfortunately.

It was stated last night that eu members becoming insular with increased nationalism and stronger borders wasn't going to resolve the issues within Europe. What is needed is a working together to find answers. In some ways that is what the eu is, apart from the eu only working for what those at the top think the eu should be. Their intransigence demonstrates that their suspect policies are set in stone. Their dictatorial attitude will only serve to alienate more in the future than are already alienated now.

They bribed Greece with riches and where are they now?
Those lesser economically capable eu members can only enjoy their bribes if the richer members can continue to fund it so the affect of the loss of our contribution is significant. And beside the eu build up a poorer state, in theory, so it will become a future contributor. The poorer will, in theory, increase its output and become a profitable entity. But that isn't happening. The poorer states continue to soak up the grants like sponges, how long can / will the richer members finance that? The principle of providing finance, in whatever fashion, to the poorer states so that they can artificially generate business for the richer, over producing, members must ultimately reach its unsustainable conclusion.

Our pain of leaving, hopefully short term pain but me crystal ball's got flat batteries, although undesirable would be a later pain anyway.

 

[Yugguy]

Well I have made no secret of the fact that I'd quite happily see the federalist US of E dream torn into pieces.