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Brexit

Discussion in 'Politics' started by prwales, Feb 19, 2016.

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  1. Naraic

    Naraic Moderator

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    The majority of people go to a pub to drink...what should they talk about?
     
  2. PovertySpec

    PovertySpec Senior Member

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    Where? Genuinely interested.
     
  3. Kirbs

    Kirbs Senior Member

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    There are references on here to Poles, Czechs and Germans which have negative undertones and in some cases"why do we pay money to.....Poles Czechs etc " that are more explicit and that if you are from those areas and live and work in the UK you might be offended,there are sites where I might expect that debate but not on here. And yes I do expect it to be a hot debate but there are places for it ,not on here, your energy is best spent on as you say technical advice, which actually I do enjoy regardless,people spend time and consideration with their responses so all welcome
     
  4. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    As an immigrant I didn't find there was any particular bias towards my immigrant status when I arrived.
    In many ways it was a right royal PITA not being of UK birth.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
  5. Naraic

    Naraic Moderator

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    OK. But report a post and we will look at it.
     
  6. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    Well with good old British ingenuity and world class diplomacy,
    I figure that we would still help our European Cousins with their MB problems whether in or out :)
     
  7. triumphstag

    triumphstag Senior Member

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    As Dave has demonstrated over the last few weeks, we have no say inside the EU either....
     
  8. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    That isn't quite what Sir Humphrey was saying either... the simple fact is that it's better to have a say in 15% of something, rather than 100% of nothing.

    Ultimately, what do you think will happen to the big UK automakers and all their associated R&D functions that are currently kept inside the UK? Do you think that they will remain here if we move outside of the Free Trade Area? That's a massive, massive cause of concern.
     
  9. PovertySpec

    PovertySpec Senior Member

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    I think people who are clever enough to do that are also clever enough to continue with as little disruption as possible.

    That's why we have a civil service, they'll already have a operating framework for leaving the EU.

    They've probably been drafting one continuously since we joined the EU
     
  10. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    My other half and I have plans to buy a house in France at some point in the next 2 years.
    As a non-British person by birth I have no legal right to live in any EU country other than the UK.
    This year I will be applying for UK citizenship and a UK passport as a means of getting the right to live in France. The passport application will cost me in excess of £1000 (yes that's right - £1000).

    If England withdraws from the EU I (and many other people) will potentially lose the automatic right to live in any other EU member state. Many British people are now resident in Spain, France, Italy and elsewhere so what impact will this have on them. Many of those are pensioners so for them to return to the UK will cost the NHS and Social Services significant amounts of money.

    On a business perspective many businesses have very close links to EU companies as either suppliers or customers for end products. If the EU removes the free trade in place through membership of the EU this could have a potentially disastrous effect on UK businesses.
    Non UK companies with manufacturing plants in the UK (Nissan/BMW/Mini for example) may have less incentive to remain in the UK. Any upset in the UK manufacturing base could have a massive impact on employment, the economy and the UK as a whole.

    Tourism - how many of us would relish going back to the old days of needing Visas for travel to anywhere? The long passport queues to get to your holiday destinations and so on? Then there is the french 'booze runs' - they would be subject to UK duty free allowance limits (so ending the personal importation of cheap wine for personal use. Same goes for the smokers.

    Is the British economy strong enough to stand on its own without the support of its former colonies in the Commonwealth? The UK turned its back on its cheap sources of raw materials when it joined the EEC. As a Kiwi living in NZ at the time the UK joining the EEC had a massive impact on the NZ economy taking it from being one of the best standards of living to a near third world level within a very few short years. Its only in the past 10-15 years the NZ economy has returned to its previous levels.

    What the UK needs (in my opinion) is even closer ties to the EU, not to leave it.
    I understand some people having some fears over border control but thats largely (in my opinion) the result of press stirring coupled with the fanaticism of right wing people like Nigel Farage. UK border control is still amongst the tightest there is (aside from US/Aus) - trust me - I get to deal with them on a regular basis as I travel on an NZ passport. Even though I have Right to Abode (enabling me to use EU passport channels in and out of the UK) I am questioned at length as to why I have Right to Abode on about 1 in every 3 trips, and I'm not even from one of the 'risk' groups ethnically. I dread to think what anyone of middle eastern extraction goes through every time they go in or out of the UK.
    The UK is unique in Europe in that it has never fully embraced joining Europe - its the only EU country not to use the Euro (which is great for the banks getting income from currency exchange). Its the only memebr state that still maintains border posts with its EU neighbours. A single United states of Europe would be a far better solution than what is in place now. The individual states in the US work cohesively - why can't the member states of Europe?
    A border is nothing more than a source of irritation for many. Its a delineation between what one ethnic group has and another has not. Remove the border and you remove the source of irritation. If the poorer member states were to benefit in some way from the wealth in the richer states many of the concerns of economic migration could be removed. Who would want to move to the UK if they could have a similar standard of living in a warmer sunnier climate? This could be achieved with a central economic policy which prevents individual governments from being profligate and running up huge national debts.
    No amount of jingoism/nationalism about making Britain great again will actually achieve it. The things that made Britain great are in the past never to return. They were the result of a world that was a very different place to the present and an ability to put large tracts of the world under British rule. Modern Britain, just like modern Europe needs to learn to get along and leave individual state nationalism behind and instead embrace a bigger and better nation state of Europe.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
  11. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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  12. drmw

    drmw Moderator

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    EU members not using euro : Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Sweden ..... and the United Kingdom ;)
     
  13. triumphstag

    triumphstag Senior Member

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    Difficult to say without knowing the details of what agreements will be made in the event of an exit. But to say, categorically that auto makers will leave is guesswork and scaremongering. Truth is that no one knows what will happen.

    By the same token, we may be able to offer them other incentives outside of the EU that makes us even more attractive as a place to invest.

    Who knows, when we are not busy paying for lovely new roads in Bulgaria and Romania, we might be able to get our own fixed.
     
  14. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    Ok my bad. Though I know for a fact the Czech Republic does use the Euro extensively (unlike the UK). When we were in Prague two years ago everything was priced in Euros and we paid for everything in Euros.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
  15. triumphstag

    triumphstag Senior Member

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    No it isn't. For example Bulgaria and Greece (which I crossed a few weeks ago).

    Plus I travel regularly to many places where I need a visa..... I have never had a problem or found it particularly difficult.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
  16. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    Both those countries have only recently re-established border controls as a result of the Middle East refugee crisis. Until a few months ago they had no border controls. The UK has maintained border controls continuously.
     
  17. triumphstag

    triumphstag Senior Member

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    Not true Kiwi those border controls have existed all the tine that Bulgaria has been in the EU. I know as I have been travelling there since before Bulgaria was I. The EU. Nothing to do with the recent immigration crisis.
     
  18. triumphstag

    triumphstag Senior Member

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    ^ apologies for the poor typing
     
  19. V6Matty

    V6Matty Senior Member

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    have to slightly disagree with you there Alistair, Although a lot of places in the Czech Republic do take Euro's and do advertise pricing in Euro's, their currency is still the Czech Koruna.

    on a slight side note, your UK citizen ship will be closer to about £1800 now, friend of ours is going through it as we speak and it's a real PITA, my wife who's from Slovakia isn't looking forward to the thought of what happens if the country votes "Out" and to be honest I don't want to think about it either,

    Think I'm off the fence now though and I'm with the In vote, we can affect change but only when we all stop bickering between ourselves.
     
  20. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

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    Can we have proper Blue Passports back then if we leave?
     
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