Brexit

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keefysher

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I note the headline list of doomsayers saying to stay are the underperforming, overpaid FTSE100 CEO's and Chairmen who have failed to deliver growth for the 8th consecutive year, but have taken non performance bonuses. Ooooh bisto (gravy train) coming to a halt soon? :p:p

Another 4 months of this crap :(:(
 

Frontstep

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Sorry Prwales, but I call it that you're talking bollocks.

The Monarch has an important position that is not often seen in governments nowadays- and I'm especially looking at those with shared heads of State & Government, such as the US. The Monarch holds the power to decide whether or not a Government is fit to be formed. This in turn affects everything from the power of the rule of law, to the legitimacy of the government to govern.

Whether her Maj is there through "accident of birth" or not is, in this case, immaterial to the system of government that we have. However, as it stands, this is a lady who has been in her position for 60 odd years; do not underestimate either her or the Monarchy as a whole for what it does.

Besides which, without her we wouldn't get the pomp. And that, to an ex squaddy, is just ace. I love parades.

Before PR jumps on you that is not entirely correct, the Queen abides by the advice of her ministers;

http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/QueenandGovernment/QueenandPrimeMinister.aspx
 

lwbnick

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We are not fully grown up if we give a fig about a ceremonial head of state who is there due to lineage of birth.

I quite like the pomp and circumstance surrounding it, nobody does it better and the costumes are fabulous!

Trouble is that where there are food banks in every town, our royals and the taxpayer funded opulent lifestyle are hard to justify.
 

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Sorry Prwales, but I call it that you're talking bollocks.

The Monarch has an important position that is not often seen in governments nowadays- and I'm especially looking at those with shared heads of State & Government, such as the US. The Monarch holds the power to decide whether or not a Government is fit to be formed. This in turn affects everything from the power of the rule of law, to the legitimacy of the government to govern.

Whether her Maj is there through "accident of birth" or not is, in this case, immaterial to the system of government that we have. However, as it stands, this is a lady who has been in her position for 60 odd years; do not underestimate either her or the Monarchy as a whole for what it does.

Besides which, without her we wouldn't get the pomp. And that, to an ex squaddy, is just ace. I love parades.


You don't have to agree with anyone, but getting personal will get you a ban.
 

Frontstep

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There is to lighten the mood an irony attached to this.

Our Conservative Government is campaigning to stay in a fundamentally Socialist centerist redistributive EU aided somewhat begrudgingly by Jeremy Corbyn who used to vote against it.

Yet at home they seek to dismantle Labours centerist redistributive legacy.

Other Conservatives are rallied against them.
The leading supporter of EU membership are the Lib Dems who got stuffed in the Euro Elections by UKIP but UKIP have no chance of leading the country.

If we vote out what will UKIP do with themselves ?

The country as a whole haven't the foggiest idea what it all means and think TTIP is a rapper.

I would love to see how this can of worms is explained to US audiences or even me :)
 
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prwales

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Sorry Prwales, but I call it that you're talking bollocks.

The Monarch has an important position that is not often seen in governments nowadays- and I'm especially looking at those with shared heads of State & Government, such as the US. The Monarch holds the power to decide whether or not a Government is fit to be formed. This in turn affects everything from the power of the rule of law, to the legitimacy of the government to govern.

Whether her Maj is there through "accident of birth" or not is, in this case, immaterial to the system of government that we have. However, as it stands, this is a lady who has been in her position for 60 odd years; do not underestimate either her or the Monarchy as a whole for what it does.

Besides which, without her we wouldn't get the pomp. And that, to an ex squaddy, is just ace. I love parades.

I don't offend easily besides your comments assist my view that we aren't a grown up democracy in any sense so long as we have a Monarchy that can dabble in political affairs. As for parades a monarchy is hardly essential, the French, the Soviets, the Yanks and the North Koreans all do them well, if you like that sort of thing. Mrs Windsor's only redeeming virtue as I see it is that she's lived a long time, but these are side issues to the question which is one about the EU.
 

LostKiwi

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I don't offend easily besides your comments assist my view that we aren't a grown up democracy in any sense so long as we have a Monarchy that can dabble in political affairs. As for parades a monarchy is hardly essential, the French, the Soviets, the Yanks and the North Koreans all do them well, if you like that sort of thing. Mrs Windsor's only redeeming virtue as I see it is that she's lived a long time, but these are side issues to the question which is one about the EU.

The Royal Family are a figurehead and have no real political power. They are an essential part of what makes Britain Britain and a very useful tourist attraction but in terms of any real actual power thats really split between the House of Common and the House of Lords.

Under your argument neither Australia, Canada nor NZ have proper grown up democracies either as all still retain the Monarch as their head of state even though she has virtually zero influence in the affairs of any of them.
 

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If we do brexit the Daily Mail and Express will run out of headlines pretty quick.

No more "barmy brussels bureaucrats"...
 
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A quick but serious question if I may.

Who are we to trust to provide us with the FACTS about whether to leave or stay on 23 June?

We can't trust DC or his acolytes - they want us in no matter what
We can't trust Corbyn or his muppets - they believe that being in will further their federalist aims
We can't trust Galloway or some of the other loons promoting out - they want anything that upsets the status quo
We can't trust Frau Merkel or other Euro leaders who have just generously given us meaningless concessions that can be overturned by the faceless and non-representative European Parliament (after we have voted)
We can't trust big business - they are only interested in their own interests and bonuses
We can't trust Joe Public (you and me) as we know nothing

So who are we to trust? Maybe the BBC but they will no doubt (thinking of their Charter renewal) be leaned on by the Govt to toe the party line.

All of the above (excluding possibly the BBC if they are brave enough) are going to feed us lies (or versions of lies), misinformation and scaremonger stories to promote the fear factor.

Since DC came back from Brussels I've been racking my brain on this one but so far have failed to come up with an answer. Any suggestions anyone or will we all be as wise as we are today when we make the decision in June and place our mark on the ballot paper?

Help!!
 

LostKiwi

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We can trust Boris. Whatever he says do the opposite!
 

M80

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You're right Peter, there is so much we dont' know or are unaware of that goes on, is decided for us and affects us in Brussels - until someone has purpose to tell us.

An example is the EU migrants that we give money to, to provide support for those that remain where they came from. Maybe I'm not the most clued up on this but the only way I learn of it is when Cameron decides it's a worthy campaign issue, that he failed on anyway.
My view is that there are thousands of other wtf policies in place that we are unlikely to learn of.

I don't have confidence in any present potential leadership for us following an exit but it can't be worse than the bleeding dictatorship of Brussels.
 
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The Royal Family are a figurehead and have no real political power. They are an essential part of what makes Britain Britain and a very useful tourist attraction but in terms of any real actual power thats really split between the House of Common and the House of Lords.

Under your argument neither Australia, Canada nor NZ have proper grown up democracies either as all still retain the Monarch as their head of state even though she has virtually zero influence in the affairs of any of them.

More significant is that they all are ex colonies with very short histories. The Royal tourism argument has been done to death, who gets to visit Mrs Windsor for tea at one of her many Palaces, no one! [maybe corrupt heads of State] In in a republic these Palaces and artifacts will still be there, what won't be is the £250m a year it costs
 

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More significant is that they all are ex colonies with very short histories. The Royal tourism argument has been done to death, who gets to visit Mrs Windsor for tea at one of her many Palaces, no one! [maybe corrupt heads of State] In in a republic these Palaces and artifacts will still be there, what won't be is the £250m a year it costs

I did last year (albeit with a few others in her back garden) at the big one in London
 

LostKiwi

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More significant is that they all are ex colonies with very short histories. The Royal tourism argument has been done to death, who gets to visit Mrs Windsor for tea at one of her many Palaces, no one! [maybe corrupt heads of State] In in a republic these Palaces and artifacts will still be there, what won't be is the £250m a year it costs


Does that mean that Zimbabwe, Uganda and South Africa (all ex-colonies and all with short histories) do have mature governments because they don't have the Queen as HoS?

Personally I think whatever the nominal HoS its irrelavant to the maturity or otherwise of a government. The UK has had a long history with the current system and it has evolved over the years to a pretty successful system.

Reading between the lines I would hazard your real objection to the Royals is the annual £250m you refer to and not the fact they exist.

My suggestion about Boris was not entirely tongue in cheek.
Boris is well known to be a bit of a buffoon and someone who will often play the press to his own gain (think Donald Trump but without the attitude).
Many of the things Boris comes up with are frankly laughable from what I see. Hence doing the opposite to him is not entirely without merit.
 

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Its funny how Boris the Conservative Party leader in waiting has been reduced to class clown now he has chosen to swim against the pale blue tide :rolleyes:

The rush to jump into bed with Johnny Socialist in the EU has certainly produced a few plastic smiles on the Government Benches.

Still in the interests of mature objectivity us doubters should be forced to come up with positives for the EU and the "In's" should come up with some negatives.


So, Cleaner Rivers :)
 
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