Build quality............

turbopete

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Pete,

I did some asking around for you due to the various threads on “who wants gizmos” and your let hate of cornering lamps. Apparently these originate from Japan. Interesting case, many semi- urban areas of Japan have poor street lighting where kerb illumination is concerned. So, Japanese carmakers saw many reports of wheel trims being replaced due to kerbing. When alloy wheels became commonplace the situation became critical; customers requested solutions and so cornering lamps came in. They were introduced on global models which were also sold in Europe; VAG and MB got in the game and so they became common sights on our roads. Took about 5 years start to finish.

I wouldn't say I have a hate of them. merely that, in this country, at least, it seems such a pointless (and pretty useless) thing to have.
 

Craiglxviii

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I wouldn't say I have a hate of them. merely that, in this country, at least, it seems such a pointless (and pretty useless) thing to have.
Well there you go anyway, that’s how they came to be.
 

Rappey69

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Cornering lights, patent applied for in the usa, 1958 !
Gizmos and gadgets sell ! Look at many car adverts and they plug the hell out of tech.
Not all ideas that car manufacturers are liked though, such as fruit machine reel style instruments as people prefer round analogue gauges.. (or a digital copy of one)
 
OP
Ductman

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Pete,

I did some asking around for you due to the various threads on “who wants gizmos” and your let hate of cornering lamps. Apparently these originate from Japan. Interesting case, many semi- urban areas of Japan have poor street lighting where kerb illumination is concerned. So, Japanese carmakers saw many reports of wheel trims being replaced due to kerbing. When alloy wheels became commonplace the situation became critical; customers requested solutions and so cornering lamps came in. They were introduced on global models which were also sold in Europe; VAG and MB got in the game and so they became common sights on our roads. Took about 5 years start to finish.

Didn't Citroen have cornering lamps on one of the DS iterations back in the 70's, if I recall correctly?
 

Craiglxviii

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They did indeed
No, they were bendy beams. Mechanical swing arms attached to the steering rack, even had variable speed response. They angled the headlamp reflector module inside its housing up to 15 degrees either side of x axis.
 

JBell

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No, they were bendy beams. Mechanical swing arms attached to the steering rack, even had variable speed response. They angled the headlamp reflector module inside its housing up to 15 degrees either side of x axis.

So a primitive version of what we have today, same idea differently executed
 

Craiglxviii

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So a primitive version of what we have today, same idea differently executed
Precisely, although not so primitive either. Adaptive Driving Beam; in fact the only way it differs to the system used on cars right up until matrix LEDs were introduced last year is that the connections were mechanical not electrical.
 

mercedes13156

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agreed. dads you really cant feel it change at all. you are either watching the rev counter or deliberately listening for engine note changes with the radio off, to tell when it changes. ive no experience of the 7 or 9 speed MB boxes, but the 722.6 5 speed auto that everyone raved about being so smooth, was never anything LIKE as smooth as the Powershift.

Agreed. the 722.6 was an awesome piece of kit, but the Powershift beats it every day of the week. As an aside, I've just done about 230 miles this weekend in the Kuga, mostly on motorway and dual carriageway with about 30 miles of it on country roads and I got 47mpg average which is the same as the C220CDI at the same speeds. It just gets better and better. And the stereo is miles better than the Merc.
 

SL63 Mark

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Going back to the original question which was about perceived build quality (not reliability), I have driven the following Mercs and would rate them as follows

1. 2004 SL55 R230 5 years 30,000 miles so far flaky reputation with huge bills possible, but actually very reliable, until ABC pump let go last month. Feels very high quality and solid, to drive and own. Like driving a railway locomotive on amphetamines.
2. 2003 220CDI C class 3 years 90,000 miles - dull but sound, faultless reliability
3. 2007 320CDI CLK class 4 years 100,000 miles - a lot more power than the C, again faultless reliability, until SWMBO put petrol in it.
4. 2015 250d E class - courtesy car from MB- 2 days - ugly but impressive, light, airy and a bit dull.
5. 2016 220d C class - courtesy car from MB - 7 days - unassuming, underpowered, lots of gadgets, plasticky feel.
 

LostKiwi

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Agreed. the 722.6 was an awesome piece of kit, but the Powershift beats it every day of the week. As an aside, I've just done about 230 miles this weekend in the Kuga, mostly on motorway and dual carriageway with about 30 miles of it on country roads and I got 47mpg average which is the same as the C220CDI at the same speeds. It just gets better and better. And the stereo is miles better than the Merc.
Lets not forget the 722.6 is a pretty old design these days (I had a 722.6 in a 1998 C class!).
One thing about the latest wet plate powershift gearboxes (and their similar designs from other manufacturers) is that they are poor for towing. have no slip mechanism like a torque convertor so any time you pull away or do a hill start they will need to slip the clutches. Interestingly the torque converter was designed originally for use in 18 ton tanks during WW2 as the fluid couplings then in use were too slow to respond making the tank vulnerable when stopping and starting on the battlefield. When you put the torque converter equipped tank alongside a Willys Jeep and timed them over 100m the tank incredibly won!
 

Craiglxviii

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Lets not forget the 722.6 is a pretty old design these days (I had a 722.6 in a 1998 C class!).
One thing about the latest wet plate powershift gearboxes (and their similar designs from other manufacturers) is that they are poor for towing. have no slip mechanism like a torque convertor so any time you pull away or do a hill start they will need to slip the clutches. Interestingly the torque converter was designed originally for use in 18 ton tanks during WW2 as the fluid couplings then in use were too slow to respond making the tank vulnerable when stopping and starting on the battlefield. When you put the torque converter equipped tank alongside a Willys Jeep and timed them over 100m the tank incredibly won!

The Cruiser tanks had top speeds higher than Willys jeeps too, which were limited to 34mph on the road by transmission restrictions. Crusader and Cromwell had speed limiters fitted to keep them to 26mph to prevent damage through spirited cross country driving, guess what was the first thing the crews removed? ;) Crusader could achieve road speeds >40mph.
 

LostKiwi

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The Cruiser tanks had top speeds higher than Willys jeeps too, which were limited to 34mph on the road by transmission restrictions. Crusader and Cromwell had speed limiters fitted to keep them to 26mph to prevent damage through spirited cross country driving, guess what was the first thing the crews removed? ;) Crusader could achieve road speeds >40mph.
They all had manual transmission though. It was only the M18 Hellcat had the torquematic transmission. M18s were still in use in 1995! They could do 60mph on road!
 

mercedes13156

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Lets not forget the 722.6 is a pretty old design these days (I had a 722.6 in a 1998 C class!).
One thing about the latest wet plate powershift gearboxes (and their similar designs from other manufacturers) is that they are poor for towing. have no slip mechanism like a torque convertor so any time you pull away or do a hill start they will need to slip the clutches. Interestingly the torque converter was designed originally for use in 18 ton tanks during WW2 as the fluid couplings then in use were too slow to respond making the tank vulnerable when stopping and starting on the battlefield. When you put the torque converter equipped tank alongside a Willys Jeep and timed them over 100m the tank incredibly won!


I'm not going to be doing any serious towing. The hook will only be used as (1) a primitive type of reversing / parking sensor and (2) for taking the rack for my other wheels. See photo. I was looking over the thread and realised it may be turning into a Merc slagging rant, but it's not meant to be. Just noting how surprised I am that Ford have come up so far against what is traditionally recognised to be the unimpeachable "best" and exceeding that standard in a number of ways.

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Craiglxviii

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They all had manual transmission though. It was only the M18 Hellcat had the torquematic transmission. M18s were still in use in 1995! They could do 60mph on road!

They were tank destroyers not tanks though. Widely different armour ratios and the M18 was a FAST vehicle.

True, they did have manuals (and converted aero engines) but point was they could outpace a Jeep in both acceleration and top speed.
 

mercedes13156

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They all had manual transmission though. It was only the M18 Hellcat had the torquematic transmission. M18s were still in use in 1995! They could do 60mph on road!

There's nothing quite like the thrill of driving a tank off road. I had the privilege to go on the ranges with 40 Field Regiment when they were in Bergen Hohne and got to drive a 105mm tracked howitzer for a couple of hours. I also had a shot in a Challenger II and a Dutch Leopard. The sound of the turbos spooling up and down at very close range is fantastic. Their acceleration from a standing start to 30 is also astounding given the amount they weigh.

The most fun of all though was driving the "Stolly" Alvis Stalwart 6 wheel drive amphibious truck across the River Weser.
 

LostKiwi

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The most fun of all though was driving the "Stolly" Alvis Stalwart 6 wheel drive amphibious truck across the River Weser.

I nearly bought a Stolly a few years back... :)
The fuel bills would have been crippling (and thats before you add in the replacement transmissions as they have a habit of breaking them!)
 

Craiglxviii

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Heheh! 3-4mpg in a Stolly. Them were awesome bits of kit. Ah, Alvis......
 

LostKiwi

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For the first tank of fuel......

90 gallon tank with a range of 350 miles.....
No differential to allow speed differences between front and rear axles also means very large transmission windup forces usually resulting in gearbox failures.

Be great toy if you can afford one and they sound awesome.
Great for picking up girls in mini skirts too.... the only entry and exit is through the roof hatches...:)
 


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