C180 Timing chain and variators/cams hell

[Mercmo]

That made me smile when you said the garage hadn't even heard of the make of filter ! ( what make was it by the way ?)

I have no idea they didnt say

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

without any knowledge of labour or parts for this job / vehicle my estimate (all prices inc VAT)

oil 60 quid
filter 10 quid
cam chain & tensioner kit 200 quid
pattern variators 250
drivebelt 30 quid
plugs 45 quid
labour at 70 an hour
cam chain 4hr
plugs and oil filter 1hr

= less than 1k, where did the other 300 go....


as for the lack of oil going round the new variators, I'd rather not think about it. after 4 weeks for a 5 hr job, I can imagine the 3rd year apprentice left to his own devices was asked to look on ebay and fit a new cylinder head (which you paid for)

Variators are £250 each and then add VAT to your guesstimate at 20%.

£1300 is probably less than I would charge. But I use genuine parts.

 

[Botus]

Variators are £250 each and then add VAT to your guesstimate at 20%.

£1300 is probably less than I would charge. But I use genuine parts.

yes but all along he said he went for pattern variators....
flea bay the whole lot 2 x variators and a cam chain kit £340 with free postage - so my estimate comes down to well under £900

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

yes but all along he said he went for pattern variators....
flea bay the whole lot 2 x variators and a cam chain kit £340 with free postage - so my estimate comes down to well under £900

Genuine Variators are £500 each + VAT. The pattern variatiors from M271 are £250 each. So thats £500. The garage probably adds 20% margin as well, which is his right, no one gets things at cost. Add the rest of the parts and his labour and its well in line with what the invoice turned out to be.

I am not sure if you are suggesting the garage bought the parts from eBay or whether he should have done? But what is available on line from there isn't necessarily any good and neither would the garage consider buying it and neither could a local factor supply on the same level. The garage will have an approved supplier also.

But for the level of repair the garage estimate is pretty fair. I am not sure why you think its unfair or should be cheaper. Costs for running a workshop isn't cheap and the guy has to make a living. So the suggestion he has been ripped off is an unfair impression.

In fairness, there was an error along the way, but it was sorted and no harm done and more importantly, done to the OPs satisfaction.

 

[Mercmo]

As far as the cost goes I think its fair.

I think what would be helpful for people in the future looking for info on a similar problem would be some answers to these questions, I know when I was looking alot of people complaining about the same thing but not much info on repair and what to look out for.

Our car has always been serviced at reputable garages in fact 6000miles ago.
Is a check on the chain part of a normal A or B service?
Should the chain be replaced every so many miles anyway?

What are the signs to look out for that the chain or variators may be getting damaged? As our car made no strange sounds or had any problems until it wouldnt start.

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

No check of the chain is part of the service and neither is it possible to do so without taking the rocker cover off.

There is no service interval on the chain, but in most cases the chain stretching is a consequential effect of the variations jamming and over stressing the chain. The net result then is poor running, EML light and incorrect cam position codes. If you're lucky!

There is nothing you can look out for either sadly.

 

[Mercmo]

Its car roulette then lol. I think we will trade this one in for a new model, are there any other MB models that should be avoided?

 

[LostKiwi]

Its car roulette then lol. I think we will trade this one in for a new model, are there any other MB models that should be avoided?

Why trade it in now that its sorted?

 

[Mercmo]

Why trade it in now that its sorted?

Good point! I Didnt think of it that way, having new parts should last a while I suppose.

 

[LostKiwi]

Good point! I Didnt think of it that way, having new parts should last a while I suppose.

No reason why not and given you just spent a lot of money on it why not recoop some of that by using what you paid for?

 

[Mercmo]

No reason why not and given you just spent a lot of money on it why not recoupe some of that by using what you paid for?

Yeah makes more sense really, dont know what I was thinking now. Its been a long 4 weeks we need two cars as we work at opposite ends of town well two towns really,public transport isnt an option. So have been driving 12miles to drop off then back over the same route to nearly where i started to go another 15miles in the opposite direction. Think my brain is still fried.

 

[John Laidlaw]

Spending that money and having what appears to be a well sorted car now, at least you know where you are with it. Go for a change and you are back in the unknown!

 

[Botus]

my point, isn't whether it was fair or not, really concern over time taken and the "fun" owner went through...

in my pricing I was scoping a budget price to get non std parts fitted.
There were at least 10 kits offering pattern variators and a full chain and gasket kit "of unknown origin" on fleabay yesterday around £340 to £380 mark

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...riators.TRS0&_nkw=M271+cam+variators&_sacat=0

On a focus 1.6vvti these variators wear and its normal to hear a death rattle from 100k onwards...
reading up many say "something fails" in an oil way, allowing oil to drain back from the head and cams when you turn off the engine, so it runs dry on start up till they eventually fail... I suspect bad use of the car (thrashing from cold) using cheap oil and not changing frequently, is a big factor... but personally, a friend who is experiencing these exact changes as her car ages... I think indicates its more from a designed to fail cause.

First owner, my sister, serviced with pikies using non synthetic garbage. She has no mechanical empathy (even though I explain exactly why it matters), often ran it too hot, too fast with too little oil.... Current owner has had from 85k now flushing the rot out with decent right grade fully synthetic, at 115 to 120k has just had the designed to fail thermostat cause it to run warm... although temp never shows any unusual temp or fluctuation on the temp gauge !, the engine cooling fan was always on over winter and spring and it seems a bit warmer than its should be. This cooling fan continuously running is very common on the focus, but no ford forum I've read has linked to a failed heating element in the stat, which is exactly what the cause is. As it only opens fully with the heater element on !!! a retarded design they ditched on later cars. Its aim is to run warm for fuel / emission reasons and open fast when you use the power. This I believe causes whatever this bit in an oil way is, to have melted / failed. Allegedly to change this bit (if you can - forums very inconclusive) needs the head off.

Magically with a new electronic stat in place all was normal, went to do a std oil change at right time and within 1k miles it looked like it had got hot and bothered, so swapped to new oil and during this oil change the oil pressure light won't go out... I did it correctly.... after a double check on third restart I held revs at 1500 for 20 seconds and it went out.... I tried another different brand oil filter no change at all.. new pressure sensor fitted no change... looked for help on forums and I asked ford if oil pressure valve replaceable they said not (don't believe). The oil pressure relief valve is buried in a strange, very expensive oil pump that needs the engine in bits to change. So for last 5k miles she doesn't drive off till has gingerly held revs till light goes out. I guess its just the posh fully synthetic oil helping top end carry on... but for how long

Can't find much info about it although on 2 ltr ST cars its normal the oil light is on at idle !!!!