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C220 CDi Estate 2012 Manual Juddering

Discussion in 'General Mercedes-Benz Related Discussion' started by Merc Driver C220 CDi, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Merc Driver C220 CDi

    Merc Driver C220 CDi New Member

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    Hi All,

    I am new to this site so hello to you all.
    I have an annoying problem with my c220 CDi Estate the car is manual and a 2012 model with the amg alloy pack etc

    When the engine is warm (running temp 90 degrees or there abouts) I get a judder when pulling away in first gear from a standstill. fells like anywhere from the gearbox to the rear axle drive wheels. When its cold or hasn't been driven very long at temperature its fine, but as soon as you've done a few miles at temperature the judder appears but only from a standing position, if the car is at temp and parked up for a few mins or so with the engine off when you restart the engine and pull away it will judder, I can only imagine the problem is heat related rather then mileage. The juddering is inconstant sometimes worse than others. I have also noticed that when standing still (with eco off) if the clutch pedal is depressed fully the engine revs increase to around 1000 rpm when clutch is released they drop back to normal running speed. The car was checked by an independant MB mechanic who told me there was nothing wrong with the car really but did advise that maybe the throttle pedal needed replacing as this was a common fault, it was replaced but made no difference.
    Other than this problem the car is fine returning in excess of 60 mpg on long runs, any help would be much appreciated.
     
  2. ernieh

    ernieh Senior Member

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    Check the engine and gearbox mountings as a first step, particularly for oil leakage. When under there, if you do it yourself, check the propshaft joints and bearings for excess play/damage. Other than that I'm afraid it could be the clutch itself as these symptoms suggest that there is oil on the friction surfaces. A serious oil leak into the clutch housing will be obvious at the bottom of the housing, but to be honest, a judder like you describe could just due to a mist of oil coating the surfaces and forming a resinous coating.

    Let us know if you get it sorted and what was the problem.

    Ernie
     
  3. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W212 E220 AMG Night Edition; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    The problem is having a m... m... ma... non- auto transmission in an MB.
     
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  4. ernieh

    ernieh Senior Member

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    Congrats!.....You got there before Pete.

    Ernie
     
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  5. John Laidlaw

    John Laidlaw Senior Member

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    That's a first and possibly world record!!
     
  6. turbopete

    turbopete Senior Member

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    I'm avoiding this. fed up of the manual haters. if they weren't meant to have them, then they wouldn't be offered and fewer cars would be sold. simples. that's why Audi and BMW sell so well in comparison.

    that said, ive experienced this in my sisters C250 at all temps and it seems to be slight wheelspin on her particular car (it was fitted with Chinese cheapo cr@ppy tyres)
     
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  7. John Laidlaw

    John Laidlaw Senior Member

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    Sorry Pete just banter! Honestly think manuals have a place in some vehicles for some folks, just not for me personally
     
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  8. turbopete

    turbopete Senior Member

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    I know its banter, but it does get tiresome at times. my 203 for example, bought at 7k miles, sold with over 130k miles, manual transmission, never an issue, still on original clutch, propshaft doughnut the lot. absolutely ZERO work required. compare that to the Autos here which need ATF changed every 40k miles at £300ish a shot, (so theres £900 saved straight away) then the electroplates that fail at around £300 IIRC plus whatever costs are involved in changing them if you don't have STAR, plus the cost of having them in the first place (extra £2k if we had bought our 203 new, at the time)

    now maybe its because I'm from a different area geographically, maybe its because I like to do my own driving and make my own decisions, and maybe its because I'm from a different financial background than many on here, but over the lifetime we owned the 203, a manual box has saved us around £3k. now I'm aware that's probably an irrelevant amount to many on here, but to me, £3k is the most id EVER spent on a car! (prior to the current Mondeo) and probably more than I will spend on a car ever again! to put it bluntly, for me, in my current job/hours/rate of pay, that's 6 months wages.

    I get the point of an auto for disabled drivers or those who live in areas where a clutch wouldn't last a year due to the traffic but the rest of the time, why? I had a guy try to justify an auto by saying 'its easier on a motorway'!!!!! HOW????? I get to a motorway in my car, off the roundabout in 3rd, then 4th,5th,6th and there it stays! how is that difficult? my car will approach hills at 2kRPM, 6th gear and drive up them without breaking into a sweat. auto's are downshifting through the box adding to noise pollution etc. if we want to go up hills in 4th, why have a 7 speed box? and don't get me started about autos in snow/icy conditions. been there, done that. my mk3 Granada was originally auto, and my 210. both were totally USELESS in snow, yet once the Granada was converted to manual, it was noticeably better, simply because if I wanted 3rd, it was in 3rd, NOT 2nd because the road speed dictated to the gearbox that 2nd was required (at which point the auto just spun the wheels up instead of keeping traction at low RPM in 3rd)

    and yes, I could cut/paste this whole thing onto every single thread that mentions Auto boxes, like seems to happen every time theres a thread about manuals, because autos are a great idea in theory but I have experienced that in the real world theyre not as great as you all make them out to be. lets face it, if they were, why would they offer manuals? and why wasn't the million mile taxi an auto? simply because theyre expensive (to the end user at least) and in comparison, too complicated for the average garage to fix and if theyre more reliable, why are there so many auto faults here but very few manual faults, despite there being 20% of ALL MBs sold in the UK NOT having auto boxes?

    and then theres the general popularity. how many Audis are on the road, or BMWs, compared to MBs??? id say probably double the amount at LEAST. and yet, as a percentage, theres a LOT fewer auto BMWs and Audis than there are MBs. I wonder why they sell so much better........
    M3's, RS4's by the thousand (manuals in many cases, especially a few years back before the flappy paddles knocked 0.2s off the 0-60 times for bragging rights down the pub) then there was the C43 and C36 which sold a handful because they were auto and didn't appeal to driving enthusiasts.

    Whatever the issue is with the OPs car, I'm sure its minor. after all its got the most reliable transmission you can get. manual.
     
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  9. John Laidlaw

    John Laidlaw Senior Member

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    Understood...
    Very comprehensive reply Pete and I can agree with a lot of what you say...
    My take on modern autos?
    Reliable in the main, easier to use, performance is good and importantly for me , much less stressful in bumper to nose traffic in rush hour stop/start
    That said, others will prefer a manual box and that's fine too obviously...horses for courses...
     
  10. EmilysDad

    EmilysDad Senior Member

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    I thought you did ...... :rolleyes:
     
  11. ernieh

    ernieh Senior Member

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    Sorry, Pete, as said earlier, just banter. I don't have anything personally against manuals; drove them all my life until my company supplied a couple of Merc W202 C Classes as hire cars. Having then had a 210 E Class on the same basis, I decided that when the time was ripe, I would have one of my own. Recently while considering whether to change, I had a look at Audi and at least 50% in the Stirling Dealership were auto, one of which I road tested and might have been happy with. In the event I decided that a year's extended warranty on the 205 was the best way to go.

    Also during my days in employment, I had a Fiat and a Honda Accord, both autos, on hire for business. The Fiat was the worst car, manual or auto, I had ever driven and the Honda's fuel consumption was horrendous. I also had a Peugeot auto which was unexceptional.

    So...I have had mixed experiences with autos, generally good experiences with manuals, although I had to put clutches in both the Maxis and Princesses but invariably have had good experiences with Merc Autos.

    Ernie
     
  12. Steve@Avantgarde

    Steve@Avantgarde Forum Supporter Authorised Forum Supporter

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    Mercedes-Benz C32AMG, SL55AMG, C320CDI Sport Edition Estate and SLR McLaren Coupe Roadster.
    Anyway, judder on clutch release is likely to be a warped pressure plate, slightly broken up friction plate or possibly a snapped spring on the DMF. You won't know unless its removed for inspection.
     
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  13. OP
    Merc Driver C220 CDi

    Merc Driver C220 CDi New Member

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    Hi All,

    Had the car checked out today by a very good independent garage I've used for years, all mounts and bushes/joints are sound the underside of the car is like new no evidence of oil leaks or previous work carried out, all in all a good like new condition he reported (I also checked the underside myself) after driving the car he said it all pointed to a clutch problem, only way to check is to remove the gearbox and take a look.
    While I was there a 60 plate c220 cdi manual estate came in for mot 160k I spoke to the owner who told me he had driven 80k+ and never had any problems, so there you go looks like I'm just unlucky, now the decision to repair at nearly a grand or chop it for something else 520d A6 or an E class maybe
     
  14. ernieh

    ernieh Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, Dual Mass Flywheels introduce a whole new perspective into clutch maintenance as somebody on one of the American Forums found out recently when his DMF let go and took out his gearbox and propshaft leaving him with a $10k bill which at MB Dealership rates would have written off his car. In the event he sorted it with used parts.

    Ernie
     
  15. OP
    Merc Driver C220 CDi

    Merc Driver C220 CDi New Member

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    Hi all,

    I can now report all is ok and the problem has been solved.
    One new clutch plate, cover, flywheel and release bearing replaced and all is as smooth as silk.
    I was however disappointed in the after market clutch supplier listing an incorrect release bearing for my car and no-one listing the correct one, only from Mercedes I'm afraid (this did make the job even more expensive).
    The clutch did show signs of getting hot and the DMF was a little rattley when examined.
    Thanks for all your comments/help.
    My manual is now as smooth as all those auto's out there (maybe i'll get one when I'm old enough !)

    Cheers
     
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