crankshaft sensor ????????

[mick mc carthy]

ok guys I need even more help with this lemon I bought. Its a 99 E200 it always start when cold never had a prob but once she gets warm it could run all day but when you turn her off it could be up to 20 mins before she will start it turns over but nothing and now it is starting to turn off while I’m driving. I have been reading some other posts and have heard about this crankshaft sensor and would like to know if the systems sounds correct for this always. Also is this the sensor that’s one the front of the engine under the black cover and above the coolant temp sensor or is it the one just around the side of the engine on the right hand side as you look into the engine bay.

Thanks for all the help in the pass lads would be lost with out the help.
Cheers Mick

 

[television]

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...417717.418&CT=M&cat=19K&SID=15&SGR=075&SGN=04

Here you have it, it does sound like a crankshaft sensor at fault,very common fault.


£40 from Bosch or £80 from MB

 

[mick mc carthy]

Thanks Malcom

i looked at that link and it does not show if the sensor is on the front of the engine (over the pully) or if its the one on the side of the engine (over the oil filter cap) i'm pretty sure its the one over the pully's but if you could let me know it would be great.

Thanks

 

[television]

Its number 8 on the rear of the engine, right at the back and reads from the flywheel

 

[mick mc carthy]

thanks malcom your a good man, found it hiding in the back and will just have to order a new one now.
Cheers

 

[mick mc carthy]

Ok got the new crankshaft sensor today and fitten it and thank god the car is running as normal it even starts a bit quicker. i took the old one and put it in some hot water with an ohm meter across the two pins and after 30sec or so it went open circuit and once it cooled down i got 1.2 ohms i think it was cant remember too well.

 

[Ron Palfrey]

Well done! An excellent result.
Good bit of teamwork too Mick, with your initial research, and Malcolm's usual informative guidance. That's what helps to make this forum great.
Ron

 

[television]

Thanks for posting back with a good result, its always nerve racking asking people to buy something that they do not need

 

[billybob]

Hi Mick,

It appears i have the same issue on my 300ce '88'. Could you tell me where you ordered the part from?

thanks

 

[television]

Hi Mick,

It appears i have the same issue on my 300ce '88'. Could you tell me where you ordered the part from?

thanks

The cheapest place is any Bosch service center-Agent ½ the price of MB

 

[billybob]

Excellent, will look them up!

Thanks

 

[mick mc carthy]

billybob i'm in ireland and the only place i could get it was from MB and it was `130euro bosch wont supply it to anyone else but MB over here for some reason.

Thanks again for all the help lads its a great sit
Mick

 

[premmington]

Scope sensor testing.

We test crank sensor out puts with scope!

Oscilloscopes are the definitive method of sensor testing. *The use of an oscilloscope will prove if the sensor in question is malfunctioning or if the host supply wiring or power supply is at fault, we own a colour screen 200hz non automotive Fluke Scopemeter and an automotive Bosch 50hz PMS100 with a full set of twelve secondary ignition leads, split thru a 12 way to 2 channel switch-able breakout box, which was purchased secondhand as a kit. But a more cost effective alternative for your first outing with a scope, is a Velleman HPS10 Personal Scope (available from Maplin electronics). The Velleman HPS10 scope costs about £80.00 at the date of writing (we paid £70.00 in a sale) plus £15.00 for a case (well worth the money in workshop environment) £7.50 for five Ni-Mh 2000mh rechargeable batteries and £5.00 for a 12v 500mh regulated power supply (or 9v 300mh unregulated, the scope has an internal charging circuit). Total: £107.50ish (22-05-06). *Its a bit cheap and plastic but very portable, the probe is flimsy (replacement £15ish). The case resembles a cheap mobile phone case, but protects the LCD screen from scratches. But with a 10mhz analogue bandwidth you will be able to backprobe and prove most sensors, making up some breakout adapters from old male/female multiplugs plugs will ease connection. It is possible to prove AC ABS wheel sensors, but not some high speed GM crank/cam motion sensors. The tiny non back light LCD display takes some getting used to, I've had to resort to a AA maglite in my mouth before to illuminate it. But never the less it shows you the information you need, voltage from the sensor, over time. With this scope and a bit of ingenuity making up connections, you will be able to prove, MAF, temp, pressure, piezo, motion, position, voltage, Can-Lin bus and hall effect sensors. The HPS10 has auto setting mode, so press one button and it will make all the adjustments for time div, volt div, trigger. It also has manual settings & storage for when you have read the instructions! Oh... If you think 10mhz analogue bandwidth does not sound allot, look at the spec sheet for a Pico or Snap-on automotive oscilloscope, you'll be pleasantly surprised at the spec of the Velleman scope. Velleman also list a HPS40 scope, which is four times faster and has a back light display, but it is well over four times the price. I would not pay the extra for the speed, that is not necessary for automotive diagnostic work.

PDF file in Italian containing illustrations of Velleman scope (be patient it takes a long while to load. Re-badged by CZ Sincro with a range of automotive connectors. Most of which can be made up, using standard BNS connectors, shielded coax (sky cable) and male-female auto' multiplugs sourced ex scrapyards or new from Fuel Parts. Solder these all together to make breakout adapters, to leave sensor in circuit while taking reliable readings (18-03-07 I should have marketed it myself & made some money, I've been telling everybody for over a year how good the scope is, now a mainstream test equipment company is selling it, at an inflated price with expensive attachments. Peter.R.) *Expensive inductive scope adapters make it easier to make a connection. Large back light screens are nice, dual or quadruple channels are good for comparisons. Triple channels are needed for proving three phase motorcycle generators, which no-one dares load up to much to test. Power/amps scopes have their uses. PC connections and optical outputs with large memories all come in handy. Faster mhz scopes are indispensable for high speed cam sensors on very late model cars (GM). *But for simple proof that an automotive sensor is working, volts over time, from 5secs div and faster is all you need. Considering the fact we own, two £2000-4000 oscilloscopes, you would be surprised how much we use the little Velleman scope, its not much bigger than a large graphing multimeter.
Forget scope adapters that connect to laptops or desktop PCs. Pico is a name that comes to mind. We own a non automotive 200/20 Pico & only use it on the bench for component testing. I have used a Pico four channel scope in the past and on no single occasion have I ever used more than two channels at once. Even when ignition testing V12 cars, I always use a 12 way to 2 channel switch-able breakout box. Don't get talked into a four channel scopes (Pico or Bosch FTA450) they are just a waste of money! If you are comparing allot of waveforms, use the storage/playback functions. Pico Beta version software is excellent & can't be bettered for recording & storing waveforms, plus its available as a free download. Pico Log software will not work with Pico Automotive scopes, which is a shame, because its excellent. Send for the Pico catalogue thou, it has loads of ideas for connections & adapters, their demo CD has plenty of info of auto waveforms.* Pico also sell the a excellent coil in cap probe for ignition waveforms for £117.50 delivered (28-04-07) its the best adapter of its kind. Laptops are just are no good for auto repair. They are just too fragile for resting on top of a car wing or front seat. Unless you find a Panasonic Toughbook laptop going cheap, they are indestructible but expensive. Desktops need to be connected to the mains, mounted on wheels and have extra long leads. None of this is practical... Handheld kit in big bright yellow bumpcases with perspex taped over LCD screens with duct-tape are the only things that last the test of time in any workshop environment. If you do use a laptop for Kv ignition testing, remember to remove the battery & connect it to a mains extension lead which has a good earth, unless you want an unexpected shock sooner or later! Earthed coax leads to the vehicle battery are another good idea, to save stray EMF spikes from ignition systems killing your laptop. I've had some vile momentary static like discharge electric shocks from oscilloscopes over the years, mostly from CDI-DIS-Coil igniton systems. All thou it has to be said, most modern equipment is fail safe. Its the accessories and "home made leads" you have to be careful of. Remember to earth them, placing the earth connection nearer the probe than the test instrument.
Don't waste your money on purpose made automotive oscilloscopes from Snap-on (Sun), Sykes Pickavant, Mac, OTC, Bosch FTA450, Vetronix, Crypton or the discontinued Fluke 98-2 or Bosch PMS100. They are just "badged-up" over priced low-spec scopes, with auto waveforms programmed into their memories. The only specifically made automotive oscilloscopes I would recommend for the beginner, who is unsure of the settings on a non-automotive scope is the Summit SMD740A, its a good simple tool, with a fair sized LCD screen for about £500ish (28-04-07) downside is it only has an analogue bandwidth of 500khz. But it has a pre-programmed memory and it is a third of the price of "big named scopes". Also if you can find a good secondhand example from the USA, the discontinued UEI ADL-710 was simple and was very good value at about £400 when sold new.
Another cheap automotive two channel lab scope adapter is the AES CJ-Max connected to a PDA (Palm pocket computer). I have never used one, but the spec looks good. Pocket computers are by nature highly portable have excellent back-lit colour screens. They are cheap secondhand & will run from 12v supply with readily available adapters, if you have an old PDA with a duff rechargeable battery. Some even have expandable memories, all are connectable to your main desktop PC. AES also sell an OBD-2 scanner kit called the CJ-2, thou it is very expensive for what it is, considering it is not CAN enabled and a bit dated now. Neutronics & Robinair in the USA offer air conditioning diagnostic kits for connection to PDA's.
If you can't or won't run to the price of an expensive colour Fluke Scopemeter and to be honest, I would not again! Mine was new once, it now looks like its been to war! Other useful non automotive portable battery powered LCD oscilloscopes which can be purchased secondhand ex eBay for about £100-£200 include the Tektronix THS720-TDS220, Hitachi VC5460 & the tiny mains powered high spec Philips PM3308. Any large cathode ray oscilloscope made by Gould, Philips, Tektronix, Hameg, HP, Rigol, Telequipment, Iwatsu, Thurlby, Sefram, Goldstar & Farnell from the last two decades, designed for TV/Video repair can be used for automotive use. As long as you understand how to set one up (every library has a book on the subject). They are available from eBay for about £50ish plus postage (12-04-07). Upside is they all have dual channels, most have high frequency settings & storage. Downside is they need a 240V supply and with short leads they are awkward to use under a car bonnet with the engine running! Most only work up to 5v>div so you need 10x probe with BNS tip adapter or a 20x ish attenuator to make up your own leads up with.
Any serious auto electrician owns and understands how to use a scope nowadays. Lots of main dealer franchises, are not equipped with one. I think they just prefer to bill customers for loads of parts they don't need. Instead of testing the component is question. Please please don't ignore the oscilloscope, or be frightened off one, believing they are complex to use. If I had to make the choice between owning an oscilloscope or faultcode reading equipment, I would choose a scope everytime!

http://www.remmington.plus.com

 

[television]

I have 4 scopes. I am in the middle of making a test bed for the cankshaft sensors so that they can be tested out of the car, I will report back later

 

[premmington]

I have 4 scopes. I am in the middle of making a test bed for the cankshaft sensors so that they can be tested out of the car, I will report back later

test bed....?

interested in the idea. PM me with some detail please

Peter.R.