DIESEL SCAPEGOATS - WE ARE SCRAP?

[Craiglxviii]

Put it on context. What type of ship is it?

 

[A.J.]

Put it on context. What type of ship is it?

Its the Cefas Endeavour. It's a survey ship but it's probably the largest that we accommodate in our harbour.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Its the Cefas Endeavour. It's a survey ship but it's probably the largest that we accommodate in our harbour.

Hmm. Tied up alongside or moored in the harbour roads?

 

[A.J.]

Hmm. Tied up alongside or moored in the harbour roads?

Moored up against the Quay

 

[Craiglxviii]

That's odd. Usually they'd hook up to shore power, far cheaper than running main engines for hotel loads and keeps engine hours down too.

 

[M80]

So what (thinking outside our small island) is the answer?

The answer is unrealistic, measures to prevent population increase are needed.
If there are measures to reduce birth rates by enough then it follows over time that population will reduce.

The age of needing greater populations to compensate for early years death rates are over, in the advanced world survival rates are greater as we know. Even with modern warfare the need for cannon fodder is gone.

Our gov't is looking at removing some of the encouragement toward child birth with welfare assistance and this is seen as wrong by many of the electorate, unfortunately. My view is that less will mean more for the smaller population. To be blunt, and I'm sure unpopular by being so, if we need more people we only need to open the borders some, so reducing our own population by a reduction of birth rates is no disadvantage. Most of Europe is less densely populated than we are but could still benefit from the same scenario.

As said gov't's want more people for tax revenues and to subsidise the ever increasing older generation. That principle isn't sustainable.

Here we are considering the air pollution due to our waste, the pollution of our lands and seas by our waste is a serious concern also.
Less people less waste.
Less people and the infrastructure is more manageable.

The argument that more people means more wealth is contradicted by our ever increasing population that need an ever increasing national debt to support it.

 

[Craiglxviii]

To take one point of that- pressed for time sorry- more people means more wealth only if the extra people are as or more productive than the first set. If they're not at all productive or less so than the first set, overall wealth drops per capita.

 

[John Laidlaw]

That's odd. Usually they'd hook up to shore power, far cheaper than running main engines for hotel loads and keeps engine hours down too.

Relatively new thinking Craig, the harbours are now upgrading 'hook up' for that reason, most specifically cruise terminals, also loads of 'green' gen set providers in on the act. Not sure on survey ships..

 

[Craiglxviii]

The CEFAS ENDEAVOUR is the North Sea fisheries survey vessel based at Lowestoft, so I'm presuming that's where AJD saw her. Interestingly she is diesel engined and what is known as IFEP for integrated fully electric propulsion- her engines are actually gensets.

Shore power for ships hotel leads dates back to the turn of last century..!!! Nothing new about it. Keeping engine hours down is a big cost saving.

 

[A.J.]

The CEFAS ENDEAVOUR is the North Sea fisheries survey vessel based at Lowestoft, so I'm presuming that's where AJD saw her. Interestingly she is diesel engined and what is known as IFEP for integrated fully electric propulsion- her engines are actually gensets.

Shore power for ships hotel leads dates back to the turn of last century..!!! Nothing new about it. Keeping engine hours down is a big cost saving.

That is where I saw her Craig, in fact that is the town where I live. I live quite close to the harbour and can see the entrance to the harbour from the house. Regarding the CEFAS ENDEAVOUR they shut the engines down just before 12pm. All is quiet now

 

[Craiglxviii]

Blame P & O, they run her...

 

[M80]

To take one point of that- pressed for time sorry- more people means more wealth only if the extra people are as or more productive than the first set. If they're not at all productive or less so than the first set, overall wealth drops per capita.

Methinks it's a bit more complicated.
Wealth is a positive, if (let's say 1 person) doesn't produce more than enough for themselves they are a negative effect on the countries finance.

A productive unit needs produce enough to cover the needs of them self and their dependants,
and also be taxed enough to cover their, and their dependants, portion of the nations needs and the nations dependants,
and for, as yet an undefined period, the tax must cover their, and their dependants portion (a lesser portion clearly) of the eu and the eu dependants.
When that lot is covered if there is a surplus from the tax that can go toward paying the interest on the nations debt, and possibly but less likely paying down the debt itself.

So far this isn't happening so I assume, in general, we are all demanding more from the economy than the economy can afford. So again in general, more people will mean a higher national debt.

 

[Craiglxviii]

That's what I said with more words...

 

[John Laidlaw]

The CEFAS ENDEAVOUR is the North Sea fisheries survey vessel based at Lowestoft, so I'm presuming that's where AJD saw her. Interestingly she is diesel engined and what is known as IFEP for integrated fully electric propulsion- her engines are actually gensets.

Shore power for ships hotel leads dates back to the turn of last century..!!! Nothing new about it. Keeping engine hours down is a big cost saving.

What d'ye mean- last century IS new to me

 

[Westheath]

As I already said they wont go for the big businesses only the individuals.

Shipping burns really low quality diesel.

You can Google the shocking shipping pollution figures.

Norway (iirc) are starting to use hybrid shipping/ferries as are the channel run companies.

The super cargo ships are another matter though.

 

[John Laidlaw]

As I already said they wont go for the big businesses only the individuals.

Shipping burns really low quality diesel.

You can Google the shocking shipping pollution figures.

Norway (iirc) are starting to use hybrid shipping/ferries as are the channel run companies.

The super cargo ships are another matter though.

Norway and Sweden, you're right- ferries are going onto LNG, the rest are indeed shocking!

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

I think M80 is spot on re "overpopulation", it is a killer for reducing quality of life all over the globe, here on our tiny island the situation is made worse by being surrounded by people who don't behave well, and not attempting to integrate. Herbie.

 

[Frosty149]

How effective is Bluetec?
The emissions data is hard to track down and as numbers alone, don't really demonstrate much?

Am I being thick, I can't get my head round the relative advances in recent tech?

 

[Craiglxviii]

How effective is Bluetec?
The emissions data is hard to track down and as numbers alone, don't really demonstrate much?

Am I being thick, I can't get my head round the relative advances in recent tech?

It is 100% effective in its intended purpose- complying with Euro6 regulations.

 

[John Laidlaw]

It is 100% effective in its intended purpose- complying with Euro6 regulations.

And increasing Urea sales....