Dim HIDs W210

[Craiglxviii]

Whoops. Slight mistake ^^^ that I should correct. The lumen is used for luminous flux density, that is power, e.g. visible light per unit time.

Illuminance is given by lumens per square metre, that is luminous power incident on a surface.

Typing ahead of my brain there.

 

[JimM]

What would you say is the lumens range for a "standard" halogen car bulb?

I've found 16 to 24 lumens per watt, does this make sense?

So for a 55 Watt bulb that gives us 880 to 1320.

I found a lumens calculator here too: http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/light/watt-to-lumen-calculator.htm

Is it credible?

 

[LostKiwi]

I'd say those figures are slightly low. The highest I recall seeing is 1700 lumens for the rally visions.

 

[Craiglxviii]

What would you say is the lumens range for a "standard" halogen car bulb?

I've found 16 to 24 lumens per watt, does this make sense?

So for a 55 Watt bulb that gives us 880 to 1320.

I found a lumens calculator here too: http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/light/watt-to-lumen-calculator.htm

Is it credible?

Lumens per watt is the unit of what is correctly called "efficacy". Current LED technology can achieve just over 110lm/ circuit watt. Halogen lamps are around 20% of that so say 20-22lm/ circuit watt. HiD are around the 75-80lm/ watt mark. The current (scuse the lighting pun) gold standard to beat, which LEDs are steaming towards, are T8 fluorescents which achieve 180-200lm/ circuit watt.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I'd say those figures are slightly low. The highest I recall seeing is 1700 lumens for the rally visions.

Depends what year the table was written. The lighting industry took somemajor, rapid tech and efficiency advances from around 2010 onwards.

 

[Craiglxviii]

So you can see that for the claims of "300% more light" etc made for some HiD lamps, they would need input power of around 80W. Your car's ballasts are not designed for anything over around 40W...

 

[JimM]

So you can see that for the claims of "300% more light" etc made for some HiD lamps, they would need input power of around 80W. Your car's ballasts are not designed for anything over around 40W...

.
No, Craig, the claims are that a standard HID bulb is 3x more than Halogen.

So if you agree with 16-24 lumens for the original standard Halogen then it's correct, an average HID bulb at 2500 lumens, can be up to 3x brighter than a standard halogen at 880 to 1320 lumens (2500/880=2.9x, 2500/1320=1.9x) and a 3200 lumen HID is (3200/880=3.6x, 3200/1320=2.4x).

So I'm OK with those claims.

I'll check out the halogen Vs halogen upgrade to see if I can clarify them.

Talk soon.

 

[JimM]

Hello chaps.

It's good news.

I fitted one of the Lunex D2R bulbs a couple of days ago, leaving the left one in so I can compare for a couple of days.

The old bulb has burn marks and smoke on the glass and the internal bubble is hazy and smoky.

The two bulbs look almost identical including the metal bulb support and painted area size and shape.

The colour is slightly warm yellow whereas my old bulb is slightly blueish white.

I think the old bulb looks a bit dimmer looking into them when they are lit but it's hard to tell.

But on the ground it's a different story.

There was a definite unlit area from about 8 to 15 metres before, on both lights, and the beams petered out after that except for a haze.

Now the right side is all lit. It's clearer and the light is even across the road including the lane on my right.

The beam ahead also has a lovely intensely lit area like a traditional headlight beam too.

Beam distance is the same as before, I haven't raised or moved the beam, it cuts off very nicely at about 30 metres at which point it's hitting the road not any part of the car in front.

The left beam is diffuse and hazy, has the unlit area ahead of the car, and peters out about 20 metres on the verge but doesn't put enough light on the verge beyond about 8 metres.

Both beams reflections are visible on motorway signs, the right one is better.

Turning over open dark fields I can see the new beam clear and strong much further, maybe 50+ metres against the hazy old one.

When I turn on the lights the new bulb starts orangey whereas the old one is slightly blueish, both brighten in about the same time, a split second.

So these bulbs are decidedly up to the job.

The road is better lit, the light is good and even across my car for at least 30 metres and the excellence of the cars reflector has been restored.

They are not amazingly brighter than the originals so I'm not supporting any claims like "50% brighter", this is not relevant since I'm trying to fix my original lights being dim and lighting the road poorly.

The new bulb has certainly done that.

I expect even better when I have replaced both bulbs.

I'm very happy with them.

The fitting was very easy, the retaining ring in the headlamp is held in by 3x T20 Torx screws which need to be unscrewed a long way before they allow the ring to turn so be careful not to drop one into the headlamp motor well or you will lose it or even jam the motor. Be careful.

I'll be fitting the second one today or when it stops raining.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Thanks for this, very interesting thread, my 210 xenons are ok at the moment but useful information should I need to change them

As a matter of interest do you disconnect the battery before changing the bulb as a precaution?

 

[Craiglxviii]

Thanks for this, very interesting thread, my 210 xenons are ok at the moment but useful information should I need to change them

As a matter of interest do you disconnect the battery before changing the bulb as a precaution?

No, just make sure keys are out of the ignition and that the car has been left for 30 minutes to allow any charge to dissipate.

 

[JimM]

The headlamps don't need the ignition to be on in this model.

Just turn the headlamp switch off and be sure nobody gets in the car and turns them on, especially if you have a mischievous child aboot the hoose!

I changed the second bulb this afternoon.

I noticed the retaining ring can hold the 3x T20 screws if you undo them completely, but they don't seem very safe so I prefer to leave them partially screwed into the headlamp and twist off the ring instead of risk dropping one into the headlamp motor well.

It's your choice of course.

When I removed the old bulb it was more burned than the first one, whitish scorch marks on the glass. The internal bulb seems more crystallised and yellowed too.

As soon as I turned them on the difference was obvious.

When it got a bit darker I went for a local drive and the range was double even in oncoming traffic.

Both beams are powerful, they light the road ahead very much better and the verge is lit for at least 20 metres in traffic. Over open areas both beams reach over 40 metres and have clear cutoff, no more wishy washy haze.

So there we go chaps, the Lunex D2R are definitely up to my expectations.

I would say they've exceeded them but my original bulbs were dim and burnt so it would not be fair.

The original bulbs are Philips 35 Watt, made in Germany.

I was surprised they have the external anode like the Lunex ones, could they be more recent replaced bulbs rather than 2002 original? I've owned the car since 2012.

In any case, the reflectors in the headlamps are now doing an excellent job again.

It's all about putting light where we need it, not blinding other drivers.

The main beams now look more yellow and less appealing, I'll fit the Extreme Visions I bought some time ago.

Might even bore Craig with some more spiel when I do that.

Thanks chaps. You now have a tested alternative if you are inclined to run your cars "lean and mean".
.

 

[Craiglxviii]

The external metal rod is a mechanical support for the glass envelope.

It sounds like the lamps you have are the originals. I still have mine as spares, 16yo at time of swap and they were fine, just dimmer than the Xenarc I replaced them with. L70 for HiD lamps is ~8 years so it's unsurprising you've had problems.

You've not bored me, you irritated me by not listening to Fact and data and using marketing claims as your logic.

Either way, glad it worked out for you.

 

[JimM]

Craig don't be irritated, you're up against the same major manufacturers bud.

We traced the claims for Halogen Vs HID to truth in Osram's documents that you provided, with a bit more digging, didn't we?

So that isn't gumph.

The +150% claims for Halogen Upgrade bulbs might also be traceable to facts if we can work out what they are working from, it's the same majors, not back-street boys.

The same subject will come up time and again, if we can address it now together, we can understand where they are coming from and they are approachable.

With your brains and my brawn...

Hang on in, we're apparently both ferrets and that's not such a bad thing.

You're totally right, if these are original bulbs from 2001-2002 then they've done very well.

I'm pleased my problem is so easily solved without great expense.

And this thread will be useful to others in chasing similar decay, nobody wants to spend £120 without being certain it's the bulbs when it can cost only £23 to be certain.

So the steadying pole which I only glanced at and took to be an electrode - does it matter that the high-grade bulb top pit it sits in is "funnular" and the other is "tunnular"??

The counterfeit-seekers make a big thing of it.

 

[Frontstep]

Hmm I have a 210 with xenons, I have just adjusted them up a tad as they were a bit low.
I am sure I bought a pair of bulbs but can't remember where I put them

I shall put them in after reading this.........if I find them

 

[JimM]

Well it's worth pulling out the old bulbs and check them for the scorching to see if they do need replacing.

If they need cleaning use cloths and surgical spirit or isopropyl alcohol which don't leave residues, not white spirit or anything oily.

And of course don't touch the bulb glass with your fingers after cleaning.

 

[JimM]

Finally uploaded some photos...

First bulb, old one on right:


Second bulb, much more scorched, but as you can see the Lunex bulb is built the same way as the Philips bulb:



.

 

[JimM]

Update...

I'm amazed at how I could not notice how dim my HIDs were until I got on those dark country roads.

There is so much glare from oncoming traffic that I couldn't see the beams.

Now motorways and dual carriageway and local roads are so well lit that I can truly believe my new HID bulbs are really 2 times brighter than my +120% Xenon Upgrade Halogen bulbs on my S Type. And 3x more than those elusive "standard" Halogens is definitely a possibility.

I'm not kidding.

So if you think your HID bulbs are good but your car's shadow is visible in front of you in the lights from the car behind, and your beams aren't clearly visible on the road in front and on the verge... they aren't!

And please make sure your beams cut off well below the rear window of the car in front of you, including the upward flare of your left beam when it scans across the car in front. Please don't be another annoyance guys, there are so many and it's painful in our rear view mirror and door mirrors.

Many are Mercs too. And many are newish cars.
.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Update...

I'm amazed at how I could not notice how dim my HIDs were until I got on those dark country roads.

There is so much glare from oncoming traffic that I couldn't see the beams.

Now motorways and dual carriageway and local roads are so well lit that I can truly believe my new HID bulbs are really 2 times brighter than my +120% Xenon Upgrade Halogen bulbs on my S Type. And 3x more than those elusive "standard" Halogens is definitely a possibility.

I'm not kidding.

So if you think your HID bulbs are good but your car's shadow is visible in front of you in the lights from the car behind, and your beams aren't clearly visible on the road in front and on the verge... they aren't!

And please make sure your beams cut off well below the rear window of the car in front of you, including the upward flare of your left beam when it scans across the car in front. Please don't be another annoyance guys, there are so many and it's painful in our rear view mirror and door mirrors.

Many are Mercs too. And many are newish cars.
.

...... and you think yours are good, should really try the full LED ILS system on my 212....... it's great leaving the car on full beam permanently and then watching a moving shadow track oncoming cars, while everything else is still lit up as bright as day...

 

[JimM]

...... and you think yours are good, should really try the full LED ILS system on my 212....... it's great leaving the car on full beam permanently and then watching a moving shadow track oncoming cars, while everything else is still lit up as bright as day...

.
Aw, man, that's Space 1999!

Heheheh.


While we're here, before I go to the trouble of putting an ad here, is anyone interested in buying my car, nothing special but nothing bad either, looks nice when washed, some tiny stone dings on the bumper and tiny dent or two from being doored in car parks, but not tatty, metallic charcoal, black & charcoal interior, sunroof, cruise control electric seats etc, a very nice driver and great workhorse, about 200k miles, MoT to Oct, reasonable offer?

Let me know for pics and the reg number to do your checks.

.