Drop ones standards at your peril ...

[Submariner1]

I bought myself one something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/?iid=11241...8&device=c&campaignid=707291931&crdt=0&chn=ps from Costco a little while back. Goes low enough to easily get under the Smart too. It lowers nice & slowly if you need/want to, though I remember using a mate's Clarke 3 tonne trolly jack & the valve was like a trigger ... open or shut with very little in between.

Thats a really good description of how this one is, its twin brother , same design etc. Opens smoothly in a controlled fashion.

Also, to lock the "faulty" one seems to tighten it shut. Hence to lower you have to twist hard to release it and invariably go too far and have to reverse back asap.

 

[Submariner1]

I bought myself one something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/?iid=11241...8&device=c&campaignid=707291931&crdt=0&chn=ps from Costco a little while back. Goes low enough to easily get under the Smart too. It lowers nice & slowly if you need/want to, though I remember using a mate's Clarke 3 tonne trolly jack & the valve was like a trigger ... open or shut with very little in between.

Virtually identical only this is 2.5T

 

[Submariner1]

A full vat audit is merited? What does that mean? Is it that you will inform the vat office you didn't receive an invoice and hope to get them in trouble?

Said tongue in cheek, as I found it rather ironic, that my first two attempts to ask them about this issue regarding the 'over sensitive valve' were evaded by them trying to use every trick in the book to avoid doing the right and decent thing. One of which, was that "without an invoice they cant help you".

Its not the missing invoice, who cares! I Dont legally need one anyway, its the date that appeared when it was requested. Prima fica evidence their system has no audit integrity ... and the VAT boys really dont like that!
Never ceases to amuse me the sheer stupidity of some of these cowboys, e.g. Here they shirk their responsibility, but use an excuse that exposes them. Then they failed to remember I raised it before, yet this is a product failure safety issue and they have ( at the moment ) ISO 9001.

For gods sake you sell a faulty jack, just replace it and apologise. Aint rocket science. And then like me you come back again. Note I did buy 2 from them within 2 weeks.... basic repeat customer stuff .

 

[triumphstag]

Interesting, sorry to hear about your problems with the Jack- I have the same one from SGS and it behaves very much as the second one you mention - smooth and controlled. Your first one is definately faulty.

I'm surprised at the attitude of customer services, I have bought a few items from them (aforementioned Jack, 5 in 1 petrol strimmer/chainsaw, wheel skates and a few other things) and have always found them to be efficient and helpful - although I have never had to send anything back.

I would be back on to
them insisting they either replace the unit or send you a new valve (it does sound like the valve).

To re-iterrate what someone else said - I would never leave a vehicle supported only on hydraulic jacks with no mechanical support- whilst they might well be OK, it is not what they are designed for.

 

[Submariner1]

Interesting, sorry to hear about your problems with the Jack- I have the same one from SGS and it behaves very much as the second one you mention - smooth and controlled. Your first one is definately faulty.

I'm surprised at the attitude of customer services, I have bought a few items from them (aforementioned Jack, 5 in 1 petrol strimmer/chainsaw, wheel skates and a few other things) and have always found them to be efficient and helpful - although I have never had to send anything back.

I would be back on to
them insisting they either replace the unit or send you a new valve (it does sound like the valve).

To re-iterrate what someone else said - I would never leave a vehicle supported only on hydraulic jacks with no mechanical support- whilst they might well be OK, it is not what they are designed for.

Thanks good to know they are very helpful unless you have tomsend something back.

I never would work under or with an arm under the car, without a real solid set of jack stands as well.

But on this car there are no other approved supports locations. So I like to use 2'jacks both pads in firm contact. And 2 jack-stands, as a fail safe fallback, under say suspension arms, but say with a 5mm gap ... i.e. It may not be an approved support location, but at least if both jacks failed, its better to distort a few suspension arms rather than squash me. :-/

 

[triumphstag]

Thanks good to know they are very helpful unless you have tomsend something back.

I never would work under or with an arm under the car, without a real solid set of jack stands as well.

But on this car there are no other approved supports locations. So I like to use 2'jacks both pads in firm contact. And 2 jack-stands, as a fail safe fallback, under say suspension arms, but say with a 5mm gap ... i.e. It may not be an approved support location, but at least if both jacks failed, its better to distort a few suspension arms rather than squash me. :-/

absolutely, I have had it happen when a Jack gave way, fortunately I had got two large ramps positioned under a main beam which stopped the fall. Given the way it fell, I actually think an axle stand would have been pushed over. Its a scary experience.

What I was referring to was the use of jacks as long term support of a car in the air (Not one being worked on) as it will potentially weaken the seals on the Jack (Not related to your SGS issue, just by the by)

 

[Submariner1]

absolutely, I have had it happen when a Jack gave way, fortunately I had got two large ramps positioned under a main beam which stopped the fall. Given the way it fell, I actually think an axle stand would have been pushed over. Its a scary experience.

What I was referring to was the use of jacks as long term support of a car in the air (Not one being worked on) as it will potentially weaken the seals on the Jack (Not related to your SGS issue, just by the by)

Actually I should highlight a note on one good point you made for safety reasons, regarding my back up axle stands.
I actually put in a double hollow Exhaust rubber, so it is just squeezed in .. i.e. The rubber is holding the jack quite firmly (so it can't be inadvertantly knocked out of position) , but there is still A 5mm gap, so there is no load on these suspension arms ( that were not "designed as load bearing jack points"). The main reason is if the seal blew out on the trolley jack, these rubbers are almost as if the jack stands were engaged, so they dont flip over under a quick drop.

And i think doing it this way, ou do need the substantial jack stands with a good spread circa 4T ones. Some flimsy 2T ones might flick over if the drop was sudden.

 

[Submariner1]

Follow up on SGS.
The difficult to control jack wont hold under pressure. If you jack the car up on one side with both jacks; the good jack will hold up for 2 day ... as will my old Halfords 20 year old jack, but the faulty one starts to sink after 30 mins to 2 hours!

Terrible company, took 4 weeks for them to collect it, and 8 phone calls chasing them. Their courier also failed to show on 3 seperate days ... so wasted time being in.

After collecting it they informed me if they found no fault I would have to pay the postage, and are now saying initial test show no fault! Surprise surprise!

Still no invoice for either jack is forthcoming.

They also say a jack only has to hold up for 25 minutes.

Bluntly if you buy from them and their is a fault, once out of the 14 distance selling regs ... you have no warranty!

Yes I am furious with them, and will definitely take them to small claims as a matter of principle if they continue this line.

Just noticed on Trusted Pilot of the last 15 reviews 11 are one star, saying avoid like the plague, appalling customer service.
looks like they doctor their websites references!

 

[Submariner1]

SGS say a jack only needs to hold up for 25 mins ??
Is that some official standard ? Or their own ?
What regs govern this, anyone know?

 

[turbopete]

a jack is only for lifting. axle stands are for supporting. basically a jack is for 'wheel off, wheel on' situations. whilst I agree that the jacks should hold for longer, I think that the situation ive described will be their argument in court. after all, how long is reasonable to change a wheel?

 

[Submariner1]

a jack is only for lifting. axle stands are for supporting. basically a jack is for 'wheel off, wheel on' situations. whilst I agree that the jacks should hold for longer, I think that the situation ive described will be their argument in court. after all, how long is reasonable to change a wheel?

If the control on the release valve was the same as on the good jack.
My case "could" be somewhat flawed.
My main concern is the "trigger" like effect twisting the handle has even one mm. But coupled with the losing pressure ( where the good jack does not ) imo it shows the valve is faulty.

 

[turbopete]

well do keep us posted with your progress on this. I wish you luck.

 

[Submariner1]

well do keep us posted with your progress on this. I wish you luck.

Thanks
I can tell this one will be a Bastard company to deal with.
11/15 bad references on Trusted Pilot, and doctored refs on their site, dont bode well!
But lets see if they do the decent thing first before ... getting too miffed.

 

[Submariner1]

Oh well got that spot on.
I had to chase them again today.
The result, they tested the jack 4 times with 2 engineers.
And there is no fault at all.
So if I want my faulty jack back I have to pay them £27.50 Collection and delivery charges.

Oh well , I suggested she have a chat with her boss, and waive the return fee.

Understanding the nature of this company ...
as seen by my experience and there references:-

- Sitejabber 6 out of 8 one star, and 1 two star bad reviews https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.sgs-engineering.com

- Trust Pilot 21 out of 40 one star bad reviews on the first 2 pages!
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.sgs-engineering.com?page=2

So in summary 28/48 customers are unhappy.
Note they Doctor their references on their site!

They still havent sent my an invoice for either jack.
I guess they just need a very thorough VAT inspection. That should cost them a good £5K in accountancy fees.

I would avoid this company like the plague, or at least double check your goods are utterly perfect on delivery or if not demand a full refund!

 

[Submariner1]

Had an unpleasant phone call with the manager.
Who didnt think it mattered if one jack started coming down in 39 mins but the other Stayed up for 2 days. He also didnt appreciate my logic that the one with the hair trigger release valve was the one that was hard to control the release. My point being it was indicative that the release valve was dogy!
He said he would look at it himself.

Then suddenly I get an email today saying my jack will be arriving back today.
Looks like they have waived the £27.50 postage.
And it arrived back. With no charge.
But the instruction manual was missing and so was the black rubber insert / jack pad!
Nothing done to the jack ... other than the release seemed " stickier". I guess they forced it some. Now whether that improves the control of the release I cant tell, as I cant use it on my car without the rubber insert ... it would crush into the cill.

Interested to see if they find the rubber insert!
So a very partial improvement. Guess he got the drift if he charged me to return a faulty jack I would definitely take him to court ... just for the hell of it.

Does anyone know how these jacks work?
If you unwind the release valve you can see an O ring part way up the shaft, ( I assume this just holds the oil in ) then a screw thread.
Once cant see the end of the shaft without removing the handle.
Is this just a flat ended shaft that seals the valve? Or should there be a rubber seal at the bottom.

Just thinking could one take it apart and "Lap" the end smooth. But of course then it could be a rough valve seat.

Or get the missing jack pad from them and just activate my legal insurance and let them screw them for a refund!
I know how that legal insurance co. work .. they pile in top solicitors, hell bent on a win and land the loser with enourmous legal fees .. so they insure they get their money back.

 

[tjamesbo]

I bought one (SGS ) as the earlier piccie by unclecumbuz as a second jack to supplement my sealey one The small jack pad has a tendency to get stuck on MB rubber jack pads so you let it down, pull it out , dont notice that part of the jack is still on the car drive a way and lose it somwhere on your journey............ then have to pay for a replacement ................ then the jack isnt used for several months as its jack #2 ..................... then you use it and discover it wont hold and starts dropping immediately, slowly but still too fast to jiggle the axle stands into place . I will not be buying another "unknown" make big Brand names only now

 

[Submariner1]

I bought one (SGS ) as the earlier piccie by unclecumbuz as a second jack to supplement my sealey one The small jack pad has a tendency to get stuck on MB rubber jack pads so you let it down, pull it out , dont notice that part of the jack is still on the car drive a way and lose it somwhere on your journey............ then have to pay for a replacement ................ then the jack isnt used for several months as its jack #2 ..................... then you use it and discover it wont hold and starts dropping immediately, slowly but still too fast to jiggle the axle stands into place . I will not be buying another "unknown" make big Brand names only now

Same here.
Lesson Learnt.

 

[Submariner1]

Positive Update. ( well I hope so)
Struggled with this jack all day.
And thought Sod it I wont let this idiot of a customer services manger mess me around. I pay for a really good Legal Insurance policy £150K fees and court costs.

Thought I would give them one chance. And rang their Group Accountant.
Superb attitude, he will organise a drop new one and collect old one!

Totally saw my point.
OK I have yet to see it arrive but no reason to doubt him.
What a difference to that uber thick customer services manager.
So looks like a good result.