E63 amg biturbo 2015 front brake discs?

LostKiwi

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Submariner1

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Pete- no the 'standard' discs and pads are not ceramic, you can of course go that route. Performance pack/S versions have ceramics as standard.
Mine has standard, and good they are too (just fitting new MB pads today), bit dusty is all I'd say compared with the EBC Red stuff I had on the SL
OP- I have to mirror the comments of Mr Filipov- I for one didnt buy an E63 with 557 horse highly tuned engine expecting to stop it with cheapo brake components
I hear what you're saying driving day to day you might get away with that, driving it like a Peugot partner.
However if that's what you want to do, buy a Peugot partner and enjoy it and small bills
As Steve says above, be grateful theyre not ceramics (MB Ceramics prefixed with 'P'), those for the 63 will cost you 4-5k all in...
Performance cars do indeed come at a cost

Drove a 2012 CL63, the other day. I assume thats basically like your engine and I assume brakes.
Came down the hill into Marlow ... steep steep drop and a hard left turn. Its a trial for any heavy car.
And CLs And E Class are heavy cars.
The Brakes seemed very good .. and the engine was excellent.
If the OP thinks the brskes are bad, something must be wrong with the OPs brakes.
 

Mr Filipov

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Drove a 2012 CL63, the other day. I assume thats basically like your engine and I assume brakes.
Came down the hill into Marlow ... steep steep drop and a hard left turn. Its a trial for any heavy car.
And CLs And E Class are heavy cars.
The Brakes seemed very good .. and the engine was excellent.
If the OP thinks the brskes are bad, something must be wrong with the OPs brakes.

One example I can give in regards to the brakes is this: I quite often jump from my E350 to a VW Jetta. The two systems are different. I am certain the E class has more stopping power, but if you drive it gently the brake assist does not apply the pressure corresponding to how far down you press the pedal, to an extent. The system in the VW is very direct and I know where I stand on it (no pun intended). If the op has never done heavy braking I very much doubt he will know what the brakes are capable of. At normal sedate driving they just feel dosile.
 

Craiglxviii

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VW have a rather interesting braking assist introduced on the Golf/ Jetta lineup in 2001 and since carried over to the rest of their range.

Firstly their brakes are fully dynamic in response with heavy weighting to the top end (initial press). That is, the taking comes on more fully within the first half inch or so of pedal travel than many other OEMs. This was partly a countermeasure to the then- rapidly increasing weight of the cars.

Secondly they have a traffic assist system which forms part of the above. A sharp tap on the pedal (not a stomp, just tap it hard) will cause immediate full braking power to be applied for 0.3 seconds, then released. This is designed for quick action in traffic, such as sudden appearance of a cyclist. It's entirely possible to cause a Golf to dip right down just with a slight foot movement...

All of that gives VAG cars a very responsive braking feel quite in advance of the size/ cost/ performance of those cars when compared to others.
 

LostKiwi

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I guess they used the same system on early A4s? They were stupidly over sensitive...
 

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And the A6, I get caught out fairly often when gently driving it after the E, both are quite different.
I know one which I'd rely on when driving in a spirited manner though!
That said, new pads all round yesterday in the 63, so gently does it for 5 or 6 hundred miles..
 

Craiglxviii

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I guess they used the same system on early A4s? They were stupidly over sensitive...
Quite likely, the A4 came out at around that time.
 
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andrewmorpeth

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id be very suprised if the discs are that cheap even for the little Partner van which weighs not much more loaded to the max as the E class does empty. and yes the brakes 'feel' better as you are comparing it against the performance abilities of the vehicle. the E63 biturbo, IIRC would, if fully de-limited, be good for around 200mph! from memory the 'drivers pack' LIFTS the limiter from 155 to something like 186MPH! now your cheapo van discs would just overheat and probably warp or even SHATTER with those kinds of forces as the car probably weighs close to 2 tonnes!

We have Iveco Daily vans at work. front discs for those are nearly £100 each at TRADE price!!!!!!! and our firm gets more discount than many from our suppliers! and they dont have anything LIKE the potential to hit 200mph!

plus, i could be wrong but dont these cars have the fancy carbon ceramic discs/pads???
They are still just steel discs, doesnt matter what they are fitted to!Nobody has reinvented anything new here so once again im still no further forward as to why mb think they are worth £850 a pair?
 

Craiglxviii

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They are still just steel discs, doesnt matter what they are fitted to!Nobody has reinvented anything new here so once again im still no further forward as to why mb think they are worth £850 a pair?

Because only rich people can afford an E63, so the parts specific to it are priced to match.

What is MB in the market for, what do they do? Serious question.
 

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Discs aren't 'just steel'.
Thats the difference between good ones and cheap ones.
There are many different grades of steel used and treatments performed on them.
For example you can get stainless steel discs (common on motorbikes and mountain bikes), cast iron ones, cryogenically treated ones, discs with holes cast in, discs with holes drilled in, grooved ones etc.
Even in the cast iron discs there are many permutations such as high carbon for example.
Each of these has different characteristics and each comes with a cost.
For example cheap discs will rust quickly in damp weather. They can be quite soft and wear rapidly too.
Better quality steels and cast iron blends don't rust as quickly and can be harder.
Cryogenic treatments add to the cost and is a way of stress relieving the steel and aligning the grain (making for a stronger disc).
Cast in holes require better quality control than drilled holes and also require more finishing work. Drilled holes tend to be sources of cracking and should never be used on a high performance car.

Then you get to the relative numbers. A high volume disc can often be made cheaper than a low volume one. Even though E63s are all that rare they are still considerably rarer than your average Peugeot/Renault/Nissan/Ford/Vauxhall runabout.
All the design and tooling costs have to be recouped as a percentage of the number made and whilst it may be fairly small its still a factor. Finally markup comes into it. Its an AMG so attracts a premium buyer. If the parts were cheap the price of the vehicle (which is also a premium) comes into question. You can't charge 40% more for a complete car when all the parts are common to the lower model or cost the same as lower models. The initial purchase price and exclusivity has be justified somewhere.
 

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Or......just stick some Peugot partner discs on, they're just steel
 

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They are still just steel discs, doesnt matter what they are fitted to!Nobody has reinvented anything new here so once again im still no further forward as to why mb think they are worth £850 a pair?

Sell the AMG and get a Corsa C. That has £30 discs on it. Problem solved.

Further more to that, did you bother to check how much the consumables cost before buying the car? If you did you knew and still bought it, so no reason to be making a fuss abouti now. If you did not bother to check, again tough luck, should have checked to see if it fits around your budget.

As with most cars, you might buy it for a fraction of the price, but part prices do not work that way. You bought an E63 for £30k for example. Great, except you are you still buying parts for a £70k+ car at the end of it all.

Still no sympathy from me I'm afraid.
 
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andrewmorpeth

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Discs aren't 'just steel'.
Thats the difference between good ones and cheap ones.
There are many different grades of steel used and treatments performed on them.
For example you can get stainless steel discs (common on motorbikes and mountain bikes), cast iron ones, cryogenically treated ones, discs with holes cast in, discs with holes drilled in, grooved ones etc.
Even in the cast iron discs there are many permutations such as high carbon for example.
Each of these has different characteristics and each comes with a cost.
For example cheap discs will rust quickly in damp weather. They can be quite soft and wear rapidly too.
Better quality steels and cast iron blends don't rust as quickly and can be harder.
Cryogenic treatments add to the cost and is a way of stress relieving the steel and aligning the grain (making for a stronger disc).
Cast in holes require better quality control than drilled holes and also require more finishing work. Drilled holes tend to be sources of cracking and should never be used on a high performance car.

Then you get to the relative numbers. A high volume disc can often be made cheaper than a low volume one. Even though E63s are all that rare they are still considerably rarer than your average Peugeot/Renault/Nissan/Ford/Vauxhall runabout.
All the design and tooling costs have to be recouped as a percentage of the number made and whilst it may be fairly small its still a factor. Finally markup comes into it. Its an AMG so attracts a premium buyer. If the parts were cheap the price of the vehicle (which is also a premium) comes into question. You can't charge 40% more for a complete car when all the parts are common to the lower model or cost the same as lower models. The initial purchase price and exclusivity has be justified somewhere.
Ok so going with your theory should i be paying a premium for petrol and parking spaces?Im well aware of the supply and demand theory.MB charge a fortune for a class discs and pads.£750 for a service and front pads and discs on an a class?Explain that to me?
 
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andrewmorpeth

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Sell the AMG and get a Corsa C. That has £30 discs on it. Problem solved.

Further more to that, did you bother to check how much the consumables cost before buying the car? If you did you knew and still bought it, so no reason to be making a fuss abouti now. If you did not bother to check, again tough luck, should have checked to see if it fits around your budget.

As with most cars, you might buy it for a fraction of the price, but part prices do not work that way. You bought an E63 for £30k for example. Great, except you are you still buying parts for a £70k+ car at the end of it all.

Still no sympathy from me I'm afraid.
Im not asking for sympathy,im just pointing out to uneducated people like yourselves,that i believe mb are overcharging for basic parts which is unjustifiable!Its a steel part,the technology of which has been around since the fifties.I wouldnt buy a corsa because too many condescending pricks drive around in them!Just like yourself!
 

LostKiwi

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Ok so going with your theory should i be paying a premium for petrol and parking spaces?Im well aware of the supply and demand theory.MB charge a fortune for a class discs and pads.£750 for a service and front pads and discs on an a class?Explain that to me?

I don't think anything I say will satisfy you as you've clearly already made up your mind.
If you don't like it don't buy it.
I have an old 500SL and find parts very reasonable (in the main - there are the odd exceptions).
I also have a 2001 E-Class and parts for that are cheaper than the Smart I also have.

Just because you get the parts from MB doesn't mean they have to fit them (your A-class example). In fact if you did I'd say you were crazy. There are far better independent specialists than the main MB dealers and they not only charge less but they usually get it right first time.
 

Mr Filipov

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Im not asking for sympathy,im just pointing out to uneducated people like yourselves,that i believe mb are overcharging for basic parts which is unjustifiable!Its a steel part,the technology of which has been around since the fifties.I wouldnt buy a corsa because too many condescending pricks drive around in them!Just like yourself!

I don't drive a corsa buddy. I would not be on this forum if I did. I have done my research and I know my budget limitations and what parts cost. I chose the car I drive and subsequently I live with the choices I make. If there are no alternatives to the parts that MB provide then you have to bite your tongue and take one on the chin.
 

turbopete

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Ok so going with your theory should i be paying a premium for petrol and parking spaces?Im well aware of the supply and demand theory.MB charge a fortune for a class discs and pads.£750 for a service and front pads and discs on an a class?Explain that to me?

you already are paying a premium for petrol. to use your own comparison, whats your average MPG in your little Peugeot van? id guess 45+mpg around town/local runs, 60-65mpg (maybe more) on a decent motorway cruise. now, whats your E63 mpg.......

if i were to guess, id say on like for like runs, high teens/low 20s locally and probably 30-35 on a run, if you are lucky!

the peugeot has milk bottle top sized discs and single piston calipers for tiny brake pads. the AMG has HUGE discs which i believe are vented and cross drilled for extra cooling etc, HUGE brake pads and IIRC Brembo calipers with probably 6 pistons? definitely 4 as a minimum! a lad i knew years ago had a Sierra Cosworth with massive brakes, huge calipers and pads etc and the discs and pads on the front of that were well over £300 JUST to BUY (from memory the discs were about £120-130 EACH) and thats over 20 years ago! at the time, a brand new car cost the same as an equivalent car does now at 3-4 years old!!!!
 

Craiglxviii

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The OP didn't answer my question. Will anyone else? What does Mercedes Benz make?
 


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