Electric Car batteries

[Gkinghorn]

I’d always wondered how long these things work before they need replaced (based on the way li-ion batteries degrade) and found this somewhat interesting article outlining the battery degradation in the Tesla range...

https://apple.news/AgBCyHC_hQ6iWXAfpYlGcAw




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sl500amgsport]

Wow so if the article is not sponsored or biased then Tesla is the perfect car? Unless of course you have a crash, or need to undertake long journeys in rural locations...

Mercedes SL500 R231

 

[Craiglxviii]

8 years is the generally accepted figure to maintain 95% of original range in it’s designed vehicle.

That article shows why Tesla is the most superbly engineered brand in the world. Sorry, did I say engineered? I meant marketed.

 

[Blobcat]

Well the i3 that I use occasionally (65 reg) had ~150 mile range when new and now has ~78 mile range. So not quite 3 years old and just over 1/2 range

 

[mercedes13156]

We have a load of leccies at work. Yesterday I took a one year old Nissan leaf on a 30 mile round trip. It was fully charged and showing 132 miles in the "tank". After 2 miles at 50mph it was showing 110 miles, and after the other 13 miles at 70mph on the dual carriageway it was showing 102 miles. I left it in the car park for a couple of hours and when I got back in it was showing 112 miles. After a return trip at up to 80mph it was showing 110 miles left.

I've driven this car a few times and apart from the slightly inconsistent range display, (you're never quite sure how far you have left), I was quite impressed with the performance. We had the aircon on full blast, the radio was also on and I adjusted the mirrors as well and it didn't seem to affect it. The thing is that if you're dribbling along at 40mph you use two bars on the dial and if you're belting along at 70mph, you still use two bars.

The five year Leafs we have all had a range of just over 80 miles and five years down the road (approx 30,000 miles down the road) will give you about 50 miles. the problem up here in Central Scotland is that the nearest charging point to where I was visiting is two towns away, so you'd have to get the bus and that's half an hour each way on an hourly service, costing about a fiver each which makes a leccie not very practical or economical in this part of the world.

Aside, I hate the Leaf. The seats are too soft, they don't adjust properly, the steering wheel only adjusts up or down and not in or out. and the dashboard looks it was designed by a 14 year old on speed who forgot to finish it. There is absolutely zero feedback from the tyres, steering or engine/motor so it feels like you're driving a large remote control toy. There is however, enough road noise to drown out conversation.

 

[Craiglxviii]

The seats are too soft, they don't adjust properly, the steering wheel only adjusts up or down and not in or out. and the dashboard looks it was designed by a 14 year old on speed who forgot to finish it. There is absolutely zero feedback from the tyres, steering or engine/motor so it feels like you're driving a large remote control toy. There is however, enough road noise to drown out conversation.

All of these things the Japanese view as features, not bugs...

 

[mercedes13156]

All of these things the Japanese view as features, not bugs...

I like the idea of having a smaller electric car however, there are no charging points in the village where I stay and I'm half a mile outside the village anyway. My car parking spot is 20m from the house. That's a lot of cable to drag around, probably in the region of 20kg additional weight in the car, which will undoubtedly affect the performance and range of a smaller car. (Mrs 13156 has pride of place on the drive.) we already know that the local leccy supply is running on the safety margins, so if even half a dozen people install home charging points and use them at the same time during tea time, or at the adverts during Coronation Street when everyone makes a cuppa, there's a significant risk that we'll take our half of the village out. The charging points in my nearest large-ish town are nowhere near the shops and there's only two of them that I can find. They're already constantly in use.

So, unless there is a massive investment in infrastructure, it's still a "No!" from me.

 

[AnthonyUK]

...We had the aircon on full blast, the radio was also on and I adjusted the mirrors as well and it didn't seem to affect it..

Excepting the aircon, I think those items are powered by the service battery - the normal 12v lead acid type.

So, unless there is a massive investment in infrastructure, it's still a "No!" from me.

With new houses being required to have them we might slowly start to see a change.
It would be nice if the UK moved to a 3 phase to the home like in Germany rather than the cut price single phase.

 

[mercedes13156]

Three phase would be nice, but while that allows you to draw a lot more juice, where does the juice for all these zero emissions cars get made? In a power station, by burning stuff, fission, or renewables. Neither of the first two are particularly good for the environment while the third is really destroying the landscape, especially here in Scotland.

Then, after we have made the juice for the cars, how do we get it to the car? The cables in our area are at their limits. It's all very well putting a 3 phase supply and a charging port into the 1000 new houses they're building at the bottom of our village. it will require digging up and reproviding the infrastructure to that development, a bigger substation, larger cables to supply it and then a bigger transformer and distribution yard, more pylons and another few hundred windmills plus a reserve nuclear station just in case the wind drops during the Coronation Street adverts.

Who's going to pay for that?

 

[A.J.]

Three phase would be nice, but while that allows you to draw a lot more juice, where does the juice for all these zero emissions cars get made? In a power station, by burning stuff, fission, or renewables. Neither of the first two are particularly good for the environment while the third is really destroying the landscape, especially here in Scotland.

They are everywhere, we look off of our beaches and there they are, wind turbines in their hundreds. Our landscape, like yours, is destroyed by wind turbines in their hundreds, and probably like you we have fields full of solar panels, not that many yet but they are on the increase.

We have one on the sea wall 500 yards away. Every time we get an Easterly that bluddy thing can be heard inside the house with the windows shut. The only salvation we get is when it is not working and thankfully that is often

 

[AnthonyUK]

So, unless there is a massive investment in infrastructure, it's still a "No!" from me.

Three phase would be nice, but while that allows you to draw a lot more juice, where does the juice for all these zero emissions cars get made? In a power station, by burning stuff, fission, or renewables. Neither of the first two are particularly good for the environment while the third is really destroying the landscape, especially here in Scotland.

Then, after we have made the juice for the cars, how do we get it to the car? The cables in our area are at their limits. It's all very well putting a 3 phase supply and a charging port into the 1000 new houses they're building at the bottom of our village. it will require digging up and reproviding the infrastructure to that development, a bigger substation, larger cables to supply it and then a bigger transformer and distribution yard, more pylons and another few hundred windmills plus a reserve nuclear station just in case the wind drops during the Coronation Street adverts.

Who's going to pay for that?

During the transition to electric I'm guessing people in your area will not be the target audience unless someone is willing to fund a trial scheme similar to how broadband has been rolled out.
80/20 and all that

 

[mercedes13156]

We flew over the English coast from London to Berwick recently and I was really surprised at the number of windmills in the sea. We can see the tips of our nearest windmill which is about two miles away and over a hill. When you stand anywhere within half a mile it makes a considerable noise.

 

[A.J.]

Three phase would be nice, but while that allows you to draw a lot more juice, where does the juice for all these zero emissions cars get made? In a power station, by burning stuff, fission, or renewables. Neither of the first two are particularly good for the environment while the third is really destroying the landscape, especially here in Scotland.

They are everywhere, we look off of our beaches and there they are, wind turbines in their hundreds. Our landscape, like yours, is destroyed by wind turbines in their hundreds, and probably like you we now have fields full of solar panels, not that many yet but they are on the increase.

We have one on the sea wall 500 yards away. Every time we get an Easterly that bluddy thing can be heard inside the house with the windows shut. The only salvation we get is when it is not working and thankfully that is often

 

[Blobcat]

Three phase would be nice, but while that allows you to draw a lot more juice, where does the juice for all these zero emissions cars get made? In a power station, by burning stuff, fission, or renewables. Neither of the first two are particularly good for the environment while the third is really destroying the landscape, especially here in Scotland.

Then, after we have made the juice for the cars, how do we get it to the car? The cables in our area are at their limits. It's all very well putting a 3 phase supply and a charging port into the 1000 new houses they're building at the bottom of our village. it will require digging up and reproviding the infrastructure to that development, a bigger substation, larger cables to supply it and then a bigger transformer and distribution yard, more pylons and another few hundred windmills plus a reserve nuclear station just in case the wind drops during the Coronation Street adverts.

Who's going to pay for that?

The back-up to the wrong type of wind or wind at the wrong time of day are diesel generator farms, you don't get to hear about them from windmill huggers (as they probably don't even know about them) however they are there in large quantities on industrial estates ready to fire up when demand kicks in. Wind farms are there to give a very visual impression of how well the UK is doing with renewables that is all.
I saw a massive PR release about Scotland producing all its power on 1 day by renewables, that's great (what about the other 355 days....)
We need to be able to store electricity to make better use of renewables.

I have a 125a supply outside for charging the i3, cant really think they'll be installing those on every street...

 

[A.J.]

The back-up to the wrong type of wind or wind at the wrong time of day are diesel generator farms, you don't get to hear about them from windmill huggers (as they probably don't even know about them) however they are there in large quantities on industrial estates ready to fire up when demand kicks in. Wind farms are there to give a very visual impression of how well the UK is doing with renewables that is all.
I saw a massive PR release about Scotland producing all its power on 1 day by renewables, that's great (what about the other 355 days....)
We need to be able to store electricity to make better use of renewables.

I have a 125a supply outside for charging the i3, cant really think they'll be installing those on every street...

It was suggested the other day on 'Jeremy Vine' I think it was that for the future all homes would be built with re-charging points I don't know whether that includes 'Affordable Housing' though

 

[mercedes13156]

During the transition to electric I'm guessing people in your area will not be the target audience unless someone is willing to fund a trial scheme similar to how broadband has been rolled out.
80/20 and all that

I don't know about that, the people moving into the village are young "professionals" with the Range Rover, green wellies and gilets, two kids and a penchant for "Country life", even though we can see Edinburgh Castle. These are the type of folk who are being tempted to buy electric cars. You don't see electric cars running through Council estates or stopping at bus stops to chat to the locals drinking buckfast in the adverts, do you? They're all about expensive looking lifestyles, with penthouses and marinas.

Like most folk with a decent income, if they want a car (whether electric, petrol or diesel), they'll just go out and get it. Who cares if we black the village out charging it up? We'll just complain to the Electricity Company. "Someone needs to do something about this!"

Tell me I'm wrong!

 

[AnthonyUK]

I don't know about that, the people moving into the village are young "professionals" with the Range Rover, green wellies and gilets, two kids and a penchant for "Country life", even though we can see Edinburgh Castle. These are the type of folk who are being tempted to buy electric cars. You don't see electric cars running through Council estates or stopping at bus stops to chat to the locals drinking buckfast in the adverts, do you? They're all about expensive looking lifestyles, with penthouses and marinas.

Like most folk with a decent income, if they want a car (whether electric, petrol or diesel), they'll just go out and get it. Who cares if we black the village out charging it up? We'll just complain to the Electricity Company. "Someone needs to do something about this!"

Tell me I'm wrong!

I'd never say you are wrong because I'm only expressing an opinion and we all know what is said about opinions.
Of course there will be issues as it is the UK and everything is done half-heartedly as the politicians only look as far as the next general election*
If people are sensible and have an electric car for local journeys such as a Nissan Leaf, it can be charged overnight when generally consumption is low. As take-up increases these vehicles will eventually feed into the national grid and I'm guessing we'll see more 'power bank' type devices as prices drop used to store energy.
Battery tech will improve too so charging times will drop and range will increase.

At work, we have been involved in the funding of UK wind farms and we are the cutting edge of technology due to tax incentives.
*We are using the current world leading 8MW turbines where one rotation can power an average UK home for 29 hours.

 

[mercedes13156]

I'd never say you are wrong because I'm only expressing an opinion and we all know what is said about opinions.
Of course there will be issues as it is the UK and everything is done half-heartedly as the politicians only look as far as the next general election*
If people are sensible and have an electric car for local journeys such as a Nissan Leaf, it can be charged overnight when generally consumption is low. As take-up increases these vehicles will eventually feed into the national grid and I'm guessing we'll see more 'power bank' type devices as prices drop used to store energy.
Battery tech will improve too so charging times will drop and range will increase.

At work, we have been involved in the funding of UK wind farms and we are the cutting edge of technology due to tax incentives.
*We are using the current world leading 8MW turbines where one rotation can power an average UK home for 29 hours.

I'd tend to agree with what you're saying. What I'm describing is what I see in the village where I stay. However, let's face it "If people are sensible...."? When did that become the norm?

 

[Blobcat]

At work, we have been involved in the funding of UK wind farms and we are the cutting edge of technology due to tax incentives.

That's it right there, tax incentives - I was involved with a large biomass plant recently, the project was £3.5M and I was getting between £1.2 ad £1.5M pa from Offgem guaranteed for 20 years - so less than 3 year payback on investment then "free government money" for the next 17 years.

 

[LostKiwi]

I'm wondering how long it will be before the government wakes up to the idea of making every new build house have a solar roof hence generating its own power.
Elon Musk is developing solar roof tiles and is near to market I believe. These look like a traditional roof but are solar PV cells.

This has a number of benefits - reduces the requirement for the government to provide large centralised power stations, removes many of the infrastructure costs and losses, makes it easy to implement zero emissions personal transportation and reduces the vulnerability of the country to cyber warfare shutting down the grid.

Similarly there are some forms of green power they have yet to do a lot with - most notable being tidal. The UK has several very suitable locations with large tidal variations (Severn estuary, Morecambe bay, Solway Firth for example) which could generate power from a reliable natural source.