Electric Cars

[C350Carl]

Why does it need to have a range of 500 miles? That's just people thinking "petrol cars have 500 miles so this must"



For users that can plug it in and charge over night it would probably need a range of about 100 miles to do 99% of journeys. In fact a range of 100 miles but plugging it in overnight is way more convenient than a normal car with 500 miles range having to stop at petrol stations.



If the charge to mass ratio of EVs is 10% of petrol then the optimum range for the best designed vehicle will be less than with petrol. It should beat the petrol on everything else e.g. acceleration, complexity, cost, emissions, servicing, refinement

An electric with a short range means most would need two cars. How would you go and visit family and friends who live over 100miles away or if it's a more than 100mile round trip?

 

[Frontstep]

Perhaps you buy the electric and rent the long distance driver.
Or skype them.

 

[C350Carl]

Perhaps you buy the electric and rent the long distance driver.

Or skype them.

As someone who does use Skype/FaceTime a lot due to the nature of my work. I can tell you that my children much prefer to see their grandparents in person than on a computer screen. As do me and the wife.

I don't see the point in renting a car when an electric car that can cover 500miles or so and charge up fully in a few minutes would cover all bases.

 

[Frontstep]

As someone who does use Skype/FaceTime a lot due to the nature of my work. I can tell you that my children much prefer to see their grandparents in person than on a computer screen. As do me and the wife.

I don't see the point in renting a car when an electric car that can cover 500miles or so and charge up fully in a few minutes would cover all bases.

When/If they arrive I am sure everyone will want one.

 

[LostKiwi]

I've never had a car with a 500 mile range. Closest so far is 400 but most of my cars have had a range in the 250 to 300 mile bracket. Electric cars are already achieving that.
The difficulty with electric cars at present is in replenishing the charge in a short period. Super capacitors could well solve that issue as they can theoretically recharge near instantaneously. In practice the limit is the resistance of the charging circuitry generating huge amounts of heat which needs to be dissipated.

 

[Frontstep]

But for nuclear propulsion you'd need to fit steam turbines for turbogenerators if you're after electric, or closed-cycle heat transfer if you're after rocket exhaust... your car might end up at 2000 tons

otherwise you end up with something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WS-125

2000 ton blimey I'll have to get a new jack

They had a smallish one in 1965 the SNAP 10A Space Nuclear Power Plant

 

[Craiglxviii]

2000 ton blimey I'll have to get a new jack

They had a smallish one in 1965 the SNAP 10A Space Nuclear Power Plant

Yup they all came from Project PLUTO (and that SNAP10A was a really good design). Key thing with all of these is that they don't contain much in the way of shielding- they allow much of the inherent radiation to zoom off into space. When one has humans around however.........

 

[C350Carl]

I've never had a car with a 500 mile range. Closest so far is 400 but most of my cars have had a range in the 250 to 300 mile bracket. Electric cars are already achieving that.
The difficulty with electric cars at present is in replenishing the charge in a short period. Super capacitors could well solve that issue as they can theoretically recharge near instantaneously. In practice the limit is the resistance of the charging circuitry generating huge amounts of heat which needs to be dissipated.

The model S P100D can do 330miles if memory serves. That's for normal driving. If you start using the power then as with any fuel the range is reduced.

Tesla have the super charger points which will give the car 50% in around 20mins. There are a few around the country and they are investing in more. The problem is getting manufacturers to agree a standard as I don't think a non tesla electric car can use a super charger. I vaguely recall reading something by Musk about that issue but it was a while ago so may have it wrong.

The only supercharger place I've seen is at Abington Services on the M6.

The other thing as well is that all Tesla owners who order their car after 15 Jan 17 will not get free super charging for life anymore.

http://www.whatcar.com/news/tesla-set-to-raise-prices-and-end-free-charging/

 

[d215yq]

An electric with a short range means most would need two cars. How would you go and visit family and friends who live over 100miles away or if it's a more than 100mile round trip?

But how many here have two cars? A 2 seater SL is useless to most and has to be (to most) a second car. But when someone starts a thread saying "shall i buy an SL" nobody pops up and helpfully reminds them that they may need 4 seats sometime and so as not to buy the SL because at christmas they take the family out.

So until the battery tech catches up I don't see why we can't accept a 100 mile range EV rather than try and compromise it and make it incredibly heavy/expensive (Tesla) just so it can compete with petrol in the one area it is specifically disadvantaged!

Sure it will only suit people with garages that live in cities/suburbia and drive to work and have a second vehicle - but that could easily be 20% of families...and this expansion will probably lead to developments to gradually increase range naturally as the next 10% etc are reached. There will probably always be 20% (myself included in this) that do 4 or 500 mile road trips once a month who will probably never have an electric car, but I accept I am a minority and I'm not worth providing an electric car for!

 

[Craiglxviii]

The model S P100D can do 330miles if memory serves. That's for normal driving. If you start using the power then as with any fuel the range is reduced.

Tesla have the super charger points which will give the car 50% in around 20mins. There are a few around the country and they are investing in more. The problem is getting manufacturers to agree a standard as I don't think a non tesla electric car can use a super charger. I vaguely recall reading something by Musk about that issue but it was a while ago so may have it wrong.

The only supercharger place I've seen is at Abington Services on the M6.

The other thing as well is that all Tesla owners who order their car after 15 Jan 17 will not get free super charging for life anymore.

http://www.whatcar.com/news/tesla-set-to-raise-prices-and-end-free-charging/

Nissan are heavily investing in their super charger points too, lots being done in the UK, USA and Europe for it. Of course Japan is already full of them 80% in 30min...

 

[Frontstep]

The thought of spending 30 minutes in a fuel station with a subway/greggs outlet at 1.00am waiting for my car to charge is not high on my wishlist.

I get dizzy watching feral youths cycling round like hyena's for the few minutes I am there as it is.

 

[davemercedes]

I think the main point is the speed at which the technology - particularly battery and charging - has and still is advancing nowadays. By the time they're shipping this product (they say 2018) they may well have already extended the coverage and reduced the charging time a lot further.

It's a helluva jump forward from the old leccy milk floats with silver tips click/clacking away... which for years was supposed to be as good as it would ever get!

 

[C350Carl]

I generally drive around 250miles then have a break for about 30-45mins and get a coffee from Costa or Starbucks etc. So for me it wouldn't be an issue.

But that depends on if the kids need to stop.

However there are times when I will just stop for fuel and keep going. So that's where the super capacitors will help greatly.

We manage in our house on having one car. Mainly because I'm happy, young enough (relatively speaking) and fit enough to Run, Cycle or Walk to work every day. But can see that some families would need 2 cars especially if both parents need to work.

But i still think the Achilles heel for electric cars is the range at the moment. That and charging points. If it wasn't then more people would buy them.

I vaguely recall some government grant to get a charging point installed at your home. Think it was something to do with Toyota but it was a while ago I read it and not sure fully what it was about.

I still think that until they can get an EV to perform like a fossil fuelled vehicle then they won't take off. It also needs to be accessible to us mere mortals and not cost £80k+!

 

[Craiglxviii]

I generally drive around 250miles then have a break for about 30-45mins and get a coffee from Costa or Starbucks etc. So for me it wouldn't be an issue.

But that depends on if the kids need to stop.

However there are times when I will just stop for fuel and keep going. So that's where the super capacitors will help greatly.

We manage in our house on having one car. Mainly because I'm happy, young enough (relatively speaking) and fit enough to Run, Cycle or Walk to work every day. But can see that some families would need 2 cars especially if both parents need to work.

But i still think the Achilles heel for electric cars is the range at the moment. That and charging points. If it wasn't then more people would buy them.

I vaguely recall some government grant to get a charging point installed at your home. Think it was something to do with Toyota but it was a while ago I read it and not sure fully what it was about.

I still think that until they can get an EV to perform like a fossil fuelled vehicle then they won't take off. It also needs to be accessible to us mere mortals and not cost £80k+!

Toyota & Nissan Carl, £1k towards the cost of a rapid/ super charger. It's died off now but there are incentives available through the dealer when buying a Leaf/ Prius/ whatever.

I've heard that the next Leaf will be looking at 250-300 miles range (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/20/nissan-200-mile-leaf-coming/ quick search but there are updates) which is a) getting to the ballpark region you're talking about and b) affordable to the gen pop.

 

[Noelmc]

We (swmbo) now have an i3 on order. We sat down and worked out that the i3 would work for all the journeys the wife does in her car. We went for the range extender version to give us the capability to undertake those unplanned journeys. We will charge the car on. 32A single phase charger at home ( being fitted next week for £199). Accepting I do have the CL for long journeys, but I find my bladder is the deciding range factor, not the size of the petrol tank. I have read that over 95% of current EV charging is from home, so maybe it's people's lack of knowledge that is the main stumbling block against the uptake of EV's. I have found that I need to explain in much detail to my friends and colleagues about what an EV can achieve, and most admit after I have explained that they were not aware of what they can actually do, and how quick they can charge these days.

 

[C350Carl]

How much charge can you get into the car overnight from home? And what is the associated cost to your electric bill?

Just curious as i read somewhere it's around £3.20 a day to charge the vehicle at home.

 

[SFTP]

No-one really needs a car that can achieve 0-60 in under three seconds - fun and amusing as that may be it's not a key requirement to all but a few enthusiasts. However many people need a car that can realistically be driven 500 miles in a day that doesn't take more half an hour to charge from empty to full. A decent car should be able to sustain 400 plus miles at legal motorway miles without need charged/filled.

Ideally the drivetrain on such an electric car should last without any real deminishment of performance (range and power) over 15yrs and 250,000 miles.

Until these absolute requirements are met, they remain a niche product.

 

[Craiglxviii]

No-one really needs a car that can achieve 0-60 in under three seconds - fub and amusing as that may be it's not a key requirement to all but a few enthusiasts. However many people need a car that can realistically be driven 500 miles in a day that doesn't take more half an hour to charge from empty to full. A decent car should be able to sustain 400 plus miles at legal motorway miles without need charged/filled.

Ideally the drivetrain on such an electric car should last without any real deminishment of performance (range and power) over 15yrs and 250,000 miles.

Until these absolute requirements are met, they remain a niche product.

But most people don't drive 500 miles in a day. Most people drive 15-20 miles a day, each way, with 8 hours of work inbetween drives. That's something like 88% of the population for 88% of their trips by the way from the last report I saw.

The drivetrain on a petrogas car at 250k miles will be coming up for major overhaul... clutch linings, DMF will need replacing for sure. Why would you not expect the same level of maintenance on an electric vehicle?

 

[Noelmc]

How much charge can you get into the car overnight from home? And what is the associated cost to your electric bill?

Just curious as i read somewhere it's around £3.20 a day to charge the vehicle at home.

We have a standard 100A single phase supply (10 year old property), And we are getting a 32A / 7.4kW charging point fitted. This will according to BMW supply from 0 to 80% charge in under 4 hours. I would need to check my levy bill for the exact amount, but published figures elsewhere talk of less than £3 to charge at home.
If you had a 3 phase supply I think you could install a 11kW charging point which would be less than 3 hours to go from 0 to 80%.
We had an i3 on a 3 day test drive and we used one of the local (A1 extra services near Peterborough) 50kW ecotricity CCS chargers, and charged up from 20% to 85% in about 20mins. (Im not sure it gave anything like 50kW thou).

 

[C350Carl]

But most people don't drive 500 miles in a day. Most people drive 15-20 miles a day, each way, with 8 hours of work inbetween drives. That's something like 88% of the population for 88% of their trips by the way from the last report I saw.



The drivetrain on a petrogas car at 250k miles will be coming up for major overhaul... clutch linings, DMF will need replacing for sure. Why would you not expect the same level of maintenance on an electric vehicle?

Most don't drive 500miles a day. But their cars are capable of doing so (some may require a fuel stop but that takes a few minutes to do)

In most elec cars, even with recharge stops it wouldn't be possible without taking considerable time in charging.