1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Electric Cars

Discussion in 'Motoring Related Discussion' started by davemercedes, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,624
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Torquey
    Your Mercedes:
    C350 CDi Estate (GAD Edition)
    :D
     
  2. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,165
    Likes Received:
    6
    Your Mercedes:
    T210 320cdi
    An electric motor is so much more responsive than waiting for all those gases to explode,
    Generating Storing and carrying the KW's is the problem whoever cracks that will dwarf Apple etc almost instantly so retreat to your studies and workshops incalculable riches await.
     
  3. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    63
    Location:
    Midlands, not east or west but middle.
    Your Mercedes:
    '93 500SL-32, '01 W210 Estate E240, 04 Smart Roadster Coupe
    Scaletrix upscaled - batteries not included. :)
     
  4. turbopete

    turbopete Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,186
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Spennymoor
    Your Mercedes:
    2010 '60' Ford Mondeo 2.0TDCi Zetec (sorry)
    when electric cars can cover 6-700 miles on a single charge and recharge anywhere with a socket in around 15 mins (which is the range I can get from my Mondeo and about the time it takes to refill an empty fuel tank) id be up for trying electric cars. till then, theyre not much use to me as there have been times ive needed that range and refill time.
     
  5. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,498
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W212 E220 AMG Night Edition; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    None yet, this is the point. But (from the last figures I've seen) 88% of drivers already have a lifestyle that would follow the use of 100-mile range EVs as is. City and urban drivers for example. Not that many people actually need or ever use >600 mile in a single fill range. I suspect what is happening here is an inherent selection bias- people on here have been able to pick and choose the cars they want that suit their lifestyle, thus most (but not all) have big, relatively powerful family-sized cars. That aspect of performance simply isn't met in the EV market for a number of reasons. So those people can see no need for current EVs due to their own requirements leading to big powerful long-ranged cars.

    Take the driver of a Fiat 500, Mini, Clio, Aygo, something BB segment and who lives and works in a large town or city. Average European commute is 15km, that's 30km a day in a car with 150km range. There's a week's worth of driving to and from work, and that's why the 80 mile typical range figure came into play with the current generation of EVs... it can be conveniently packaged and fits in with the lifestyle of its target market.

    Now the market is saying, we like these (EV sales are increasing fairly steadily) but we'd like more range & practicality. So the cars will get bigger and longer ranged; the next range bracket is 250 miles and we will see that in the next 2 years.

    My concern is the battery cost paradigm, the cost: storage capacity ratio is very much non-linear, but I do not know where the exponential inflection point kicks in. Working on it though for open source literature :D

    This is why I think that either the ICE: electric or fuel-cell hybrid will be the long-term future for powertrains. They both keep the battery bank scaled down to 30-40kW.h with the continued power generation capacity of existing types.
     
  6. C350Carl

    C350Carl Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Middle East
    Your Mercedes:
    2013 E250 CDI AMG Sport Estate
    If these high density super capacitors prove to really be 1000x better than current ones then I think the EV churn of cars may pick up pace from the manufacturer.

    My concern with it all is the pollution involved in making the batteries. Yes the car themselves are Eco Friendly once built.

    But I always hear about the environmental impact of the battery production being greater than that of an ICE vehicle. However i genuinely don't know if this is really the case. Especially as Tesla are investing heavily into a new Battery Production plant.
     
  7. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,498
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W212 E220 AMG Night Edition; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    I've seen a battery plant, quite a big one as it happens. Environmental impact at plant is quite small, but it's a question of scalability- one needs a damn big plant volume wise to bring the environmental costs down to an acceptable level. Pfft Tesla this Tesla that- they're small players in real terms. It's what Toyota and Nissan are doing that will show the actual realities for man on the street...
     
  8. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,165
    Likes Received:
    6
    Your Mercedes:
    T210 320cdi
    It does seem more sensible to have one power station than hundreds of thousands yet the storage of that power produced on board the car in a "chemical" format seems likely to pollute.

    Perhaps we need a rethink on clockwork and compressed air.
     
  9. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,498
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W212 E220 AMG Night Edition; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    Tata have built a compressed air powered car for the Indian urban market. A number of us discussed it at work and concluded that the first traffic accident would look like what happened at the end of Jaws, just bigger (yes that was just one full diver's tank exploding...)

    Clockwork, how much energy do you want to contain in a spring?!? Massive structure required.

    We could add flywheels too but then you get gyro precession issues.

    We have the prime movers we have because they work. Electric cars via an all-nuclear grid would be good. No pollution there beyond some warm water...
     
  10. Noelmc

    Noelmc Senior Member

    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Peterborough
    Your Mercedes:
    CL500/2005/4966
    Many of the car makers are trying to be seen to use green energy to construct cars, Ford have wind turbines at Bridgend and Dagenham, and they talk about it powering the whole of the engine production. The BMW i3 we have on order is made in a green energy powered facility, and the i3 carbon fibre body cloth is made in a factory in the USA powered by hydro.
     
  11. OP
    davemercedes

    davemercedes Senior Member

    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Worcs
    Your Mercedes:
    2007 Merc 220 CDi Est Auto Av
  12. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,498
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W212 E220 AMG Night Edition; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    I understand that 12% of Nissan Sunderland plant's energy needs are met by the (feckin' huge) on-site wind farm. It's not to put "green energy" into cars, it's because it's relatively cheap to do with Government grants...
     
  13. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,498
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W212 E220 AMG Night Edition; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
  14. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,624
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Torquey
    Your Mercedes:
    C350 CDi Estate (GAD Edition)
    Also keeps manufacturing costs down
     
  15. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,498
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W212 E220 AMG Night Edition; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    Everything is subordinate to the total delivered cost of the vehicle as it leaves the gates...
     
  16. JBell

    JBell Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,624
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Torquey
    Your Mercedes:
    C350 CDi Estate (GAD Edition)
    I know, I specialise in Lean and Supply Chain recruitment
     
  17. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,498
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Cambs UK
    Your Mercedes:
    W215 CL500 Garage Queen; W212 E220 AMG Night Edition; W211 E320 Avantgarde Estate Designo Edition
    Hmm. I might need to keep you in my phonebook ;)
     
  18. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    63
    Location:
    Midlands, not east or west but middle.
    Your Mercedes:
    '93 500SL-32, '01 W210 Estate E240, 04 Smart Roadster Coupe
    Hmmm... me too. My other half is contracting to JLR as a buyer....
     
  19. eman

    eman Senior Member

    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Walsall
    Your Mercedes:
    W166 ML350 Premium Plus
    There 2 new engine plants at i54 have roofs full of solar panels.
     
  20. turbopete

    turbopete Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,186
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Spennymoor
    Your Mercedes:
    2010 '60' Ford Mondeo 2.0TDCi Zetec (sorry)
     

Share This Page