Engine Not Turning Over?????

television

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132 = CAN ME 1.0 Right information distorted or engine coolant. Implausable
Limp home B code auto reset

133 = CAN info totally distorted, limp home and autoreset.

134 = Can ESP totally distorted, limp home and auto reset.

136 = not used

My veiw of reading this is that the Can is contaminated, were these checks with the mirror unplugged.

Malcolm
 
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rajinder_1

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No these were with mirror plugged in, they for some reason think that the mirror is not at fault and susequently havent checked it. i have the car here so i will try and look at it take the door panel off and the mirror apart clean all the connectors with WD40 and see how that goes.
Have you sent a copy of the disc for me to make a duplicate of malcolm, i think it would be a good thing to have..

What is 135 CAN (is there one)

Regards

Raj
 
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rajinder_1

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Malcolm

i think can 134 was on it too.... not 136 ( imade that one up i think....)

Raj
 

television

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Raj, yes I have seen that site, no help to you, the one thing it does say is that all ECU's are tied together, This is what I have been saying to you.
All of the codes you gave me lead to Contaminated CAN bus,That includes everthing including mirrors. None of those fault codes were real, and they all self reset,
Once again Code 135 is ME Right information distorted,limp home and self reset.

Code 116 would mean starter delayed locked out.
All of these codes are old codes. the highest real code is 65.
when old codes have not been cleared the read codes are all -96

Malcolm
 

television

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All I can think of right now is ME injection

Malcolm
 

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The auto reset bit is, resets itself when the fault is not there, anything on the can bus must be clean, the contamination present comes and goes.

I think your guy's are going to have to respect what a Can Bus is, and the way it works.

Malcolm
 
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rajinder_1

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The guy from MB said that on monday that he will look up on MB intranet system and find out what causes the faults etc, as they have a internal site which allows them to search for the fault codes and how to resolve. He will let my mechanic know and then see what happens, i did mention the mirror to him and i think he sort of took it on board, but was more intereted in the ecu theory.....
I will dismantle the drivers door 2mrw and have a look around see if i can find me some green stuff growing, i will buy some lighter fluid and clean all the connectors of green mush....
 

television

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Raj, On you mirror you have 12v going to de icer, a signal to auto dim, posistion sensor with memory and ECU.

An electro plating plant runs by an anode that sacrifices itself to the cathode when a volage is present. The green on your wires and plug means that it is going the same way at the moment. if you leave it, the wires will just fall off the plug.

Data lines do not have a DC voltage as such, when the can sends out a message, what does it get back, a few volts DC, not want it wanted, so it is confused or corrupt, mixed messages get sent around the whole BUS system as every ECU is linked.

If this was a TV set, and it had some liquid spilt in The tracks go green, if this was on any part of the micro, it would and does do all kind of things like changing channels on its own, sound going off, picture changing in size, and reverting to st/by.

Your car is the same on electrics as a 140 yet it appears that yours is the only car in the world with your problem. Anything that can contaminate the CAN BUS must be dealt with. No one knows if this is going to solve anything but you have to start somewhere. As said before when the car does go there are no faults and it drives well.

The thread below is the one where the car would not start due to can fault in drivers seat

Malcolm



http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=15813&highlight=bus
 
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rajinder_1

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Hi Malcolm,
I took mirror off and spared wd40 on there this morning, on both the connector and the plug. There wasnt that much on there to be honest, and i looked at how water was getting on there but could not find anything????
I will see what the guy says tommorrow after looking at the codes in the shop and let you know...
Im so tempted to change the car for something else....

Regards

Raj
 

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Hi Raj,

Just to add to the good advise from Television:

A can bus is like an IBM Token-Ring network, used by computers many years ago. Basically, a can controller (which is connected to an intelligence, ie. ECU) looks for a gap on the bus (an idle, floating state), then transmits its data. It listens for global messages, or a message with its address in order to take actions. All can controllers are connected in a bus, terminated at both ends. The can bus must be well terminated, if it is not, then a can controller may not detect an idle/float state (to send its message) or data corruption occurs upon receipt.

Why I tell you this is so that you can check the integrity of the can bus. On systems i have worked on, the bus is normally terminated at each end by 120 ohm resistance (Im not sure what Merc use, but I guess 120 Ohm). If some part of the bus has got green oxidation, then it is feasible that the resistence can be altered (lowered), leading to message corruption. Best advice, check the resistence with the mirror connected and without. If their is a large difference, then the mirror part of the can bus needs repairing or replacing.

The other possibility is that their is a faulty can controller, which could be randomly corrupting the bus - this would be very difficult to locate - mb dealers generally wouldnt find it,unless Merc has given them a comprehensive tool.

Telev
 

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Thank you for joining this thread, your input is most welcome. whilst I know how it works, I have not worked on a Can Bus.

Malcolm
 
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rajinder_1

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It happened today again, remeber i said it hasnt gone into limp mode, well it did today, it went to limp and when i removed key it didnt start, took it to my mechaninc he switched it off and againg took 10-15 attepts to start - swithced it off and then it wouldnt start again for 15 - 20 mins of starting and it was back to normal......

Left it with him on his day off...... and said will look at it tommorrow now....
 

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television said:
Thank you for joining this thread, your input is most welcome. whilst I know how it works, I have not worked on a Can Bus.

Malcolm

I havent commercially worked with can bus, but I have used the Microchip MC2510 (a can bus controller) quite extensively for private work.

Fault finding at digital level is difficult without the correct tools. A simple tool is a Notebook PC with a CAN controller (set to Promiscuous mode) attached to the cars Can bus. You drive the car (with the PC capturing all Can messages) until it failed and analyse the results. A large number of bus errors (collisions, ECC/CRC) would indicate some bad wiring connection/termination or a faulty controller. By analysing the 'corrupt packets' you'd gain possible insite into the source (ie. you could recover the sender/receiver address and then look into those components and connections).

Without this type of equipment and analytical method, the best practise is to go round all connectors that use can bus, check and clean them, then check can wiring continuity and resistence. Their is the possibility that Raj's fault is simply a connector that is 'noisy' (ie. bad connections). ie. My ML came back from Merc and wouldnt accelerate, after reseating all the connectors to do with airflow and injection, acceleration was back to normal!
 
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rajinder_1

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Thanks, mine is such a pain as it starts then stops then try 15 times it starts again, where would i start???? and who will have this equiptment???

Raj
 
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rajinder_1

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Guys,
Had a call and the codes look loke they are coming from a gearbox ecu, i have no idea on this would a stop the car starting and throwing it in limp home mode and sometimes running fine on other times....i have put the codes on previoulsy the 133 132 and 136 CAN faults..(i think)

any help will be appreciated

Regards
 
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Hi Raj,

I cant help on the codes, needs someone with a lot of hands-on experience or Merc inside info. A Gearbox ECU could definitely shutdown an engine though as the Engine ECU will subscribe to all messages on the CAN relating to transmission and act accordingly. ie. Gearbox is in Reverse and you try to start the engine - it wont. On old cars, this was done with a micro-switch.

Regarding earlier post, I built my own CAN analyser, but unless your into Electronics and Firmware, not an option.

Try the simple things first, locate all the wiring around the gearbox, check for chaffs and clean all connectors. If it doesnt help, do you know any Merc Independent Specialists to run a full diagnostic on the Gearbox?
 

television

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that's just what I have told Raj, all connectors must be taken off and cleaned and firmly re seated.

Malcolm
 
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rajinder_1

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thanks guys, i will try and get my guy to do that, but i dont think he is too keen on it, i will ask him and see what he says, aparently there in no test that will allow you to see if the gearbox ecu is at fault, it apparently just throws our can binary code and my mechaninc cant test it????
 


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