Engine Not Turning Over?????

[television]

just to add something to these codes, these are the codes you would get if you read them now, they are accumulative, that means the car has been started more than once since the codes were read. if you were to clear the codes and start the car, then check for fault codes the numbers I put up, or the ones you have would be -96

hope that is clear.

Malcolm

 

[rajinder_1]

Malcolm,
So i should get the codes cleared first, then start the car and have the codes re-read? i was told that the fault wont show right away and would take a few days to register on diagnostics....
I got some contact cleaner, from maplins didnt have electrolube, was similar super 10 i think? but sprayed this on one side of connectors all in passenger footwell, will do the others on monday as will have to take centre console out.

thanks malcolm i really appreciate your help..

Raj

 

[television]

No Raj, no point in clearing the codes now we know what the all are, they all relate to the CAN BUS so any connection anywhere can cause it. when you are working on it, take the lide off the module box (nearside near screen) its held down by 6-8 scews. take out the relay boxes one by one and clean the contacts and any multi plugs that you can find. if you want any info on how it comes to pieces just ask.

Malcolm

 

[rajinder_1]

Malcolm,
The unit which is in under the bonnet, is that what you mean, opposite passenger seat in engine compartment? i have sprayed in there. I will have to try and remove the sills and the door trims, my mechaninc will do the center console as he will be replaceing the starter lockout relay. I dont think it costs alot so that is why they suggested to change.
I spoke to guy from MB, he is suggesting it was maybe the gearbox ECU as all the codes are under heading ETC (electronic Transmission Control) on the diagnostics. Because the are under that heading and nothing else is showing any faults he says that the ecu is not getting the message from the other components. If the other components were at fault the would show on diagnostics apparantly.... that was why he mentioned the ECU.
As you know i dont really know much about electrics and am relaying your message to them and theirs to you and getting explanations from both of you which is causing alot of head scratching on my part.....

Speak to you soon

Raj

 

[rajinder_1]

Hi macolm,
Have you go your cd writer going? i would love to have a copy of your cds for the car or post them over and i will copy and send back as soon as i have copied them ( if you dont mind that is)

Raj

 

[television]

Just found out something else.

ETC unit module with part number 030 545 23 32 (egs52 q01 or sw 1401)it is possible to send erroneous data on the CAN BUS after switching on ignition.

this all happenned around 08 01 but many earlier cars slipped through.
you can tell if you have the old ESP MK20 or the new MK25 by checking sensors on brake master cylinder 1 presure sensor on the new 25 or 2 on the old 20

Use ETC Q02 or SW42 01.

This mod stops many stupid CAN faults

Malcolm

 

[rajinder_1]

Thanks malcolm,
May be sill question but where are the sensors? I will have a look at the unit proabably easier as is in passenger footwell and i know where that is. I will let you know which unit i have. If i have the old Unit should i replace it or take it to benz and tell them to sort it will it be under a recall or something?

Regards

Raj

 

[television]

I feel this is the break we have been loocking for, I will look on mine later today. this is 2002 info, only found it by looking for cruise problem.
whith this fault info is sent out, and goble de gooch comes back through break in data line.

Malcolm

 

[rajinder_1]

I know, my mechanic will give me the i told you so look when i tell him, but will this be a merc problem or will they try and off load the responsibiliy? ive go a feeling it will be the latter. I know that merc dont give discount on parts programmed to the car as my mechanic has asked and i spoke to the guy from MB also, i will pop down at 11am and pull the ecu number out of the car so i can check it with the info you gave earlier.

Raj

 

[rajinder_1]

Hey Malcolm,
Just had a look at the car, It hasnt got a ETC its a EGS1 unit in the footwell part number A026 545 8432 and in the control box it has a BAS/ESP unit part number 029 545 8132.
These do not match the numbers that you have given to me. The brake cylinder has got two sensors but only 1 in pressure sensor according to my mechanic????

Regards

Raj

 

[Ian Brown]

Why not bite the bullet rajinder_1 and put the car into a main dealer and get it repaired, it might cost more at the time, but might work out cheaper in the long run. Its oblivious by the length of time that you have had this problem and things that have been done to no avail you are chasing after your portholes trying to find a remedy to resolve the problem and are no further forward. You mechanic must be working for nothing with the amount of time he has spent on your problem.

 

[rajinder_1]

Ian,
My mechanic a friend and ex MB shop foreman his collegues 1, is MB technician(still there) 2, is 24 hr MB roadside recovery.
And they all are from the dealership that would take the car.
They are using exactly the same equiptment that the dealership would use and diagnosing the exact way that a dealership would. BUT i dont get charged £95 per hour plus VAT = £115 per hour to try and find a fault that these guys who work in the same place are doing next to nothing for me.
So with this said i think you can see why it hasnt gone to my local dealer....
And with people like malcolm on my side i think that the amount of knowledge that i am getting with all these people into this problem by far out weighs what the dealership would provide and who would also follow the same protocal of trial and error replacing parts that dont need replacing and charging me a small fortune for the pleasure.
Also my wife has a collegue who works for Land Rover Technical, who by coincidence has a brother who works for MB tech and guess what he said, the exact same as my mechaninc + Collegues and Malcolm.
Now you tell me Ian what would you do in my situation? If you had all these people helping you on your doorstep would you take to MB. ( dont get me wrong Ian i was at one point tempted but then my own mechanic said to me the exact thing i said above ) and i think that sums it all up really.

Regards

Rajinder

 

[Ian Brown]

Now you tell me Ian what would you do in my situation? If you had all these people helping you on your doorstep would you take to MB. ( dont get me wrong Ian i was at one point tempted but then my own mechanic said to me the exact thing i said above ) and i think that sums it all up really.

Regards

Rajinder

Well Rajinder can you tell me why you are still messing around with the same problem since the 30th of jan and the problem is still not cured. if they are using the same equipment as the main dealers and are coming up with the error codes then why are you not fitting the appropriate parts to resolve the problem?. I can’t see the main dealer taking that length of time to cure the problem.

 

[rajinder_1]

Ian,
If you read the thread you will see why it is not being resolved, and as for dealers not taking that long, if you look at some of the stories that you see or hear you will know that they will replace everything under the sun charge you for it even if it doesnt need replacing + the labour charges. Now in all honesty i really dont feel like just handing over money to dealers for chaging unnecessary parts and labour charges.
And if you havnt read the thread, the car has a CAN BUS fault, which means that its a electrical fault..... this in turn means that its all trial and error and with technical faults i dont think there is always a easy fix especially in newer models which all have so much electrics that the codes dont even relate to the specific problem. If you look on this site you will see one guy had a problem with a seat control unit which stopped his car from starting, now you tell me that you would check for a faulty seat contrl unit if your car didnt start?????

I have spoken to some well established independents in the midlands and they wouldnt even qoute me nor say how long they need the car for to resolve the problem,They really didnt want the car in as they know that it is time consuming and they wont gaurantee a fix same with MB.
Now if you want to use a dealer im not stopping you or anyone else that thinks paying a apprentice in a workshop to mess around with your car and money is satisfactory. As explained i have trust in the guys i use and dont really see why it is bothering you how long its taking for me to resolve my issues with my car.

 

[television]

Maybe Raj will not mind if I fill in some of the story.
The car was previously own by a director of a large company. the car is one of the last 100 129's to come to the UK it is a special edition Designo.
It would appear that the car has spent most of its life in MB workshops, all for one thing, goble de gouch CAN BUS faults. though the car will be OK for weeks on end it has moods when it will not start (starter lock out) then it will start and go into the limp home mode. Next day it can be OK.
the car does not have any of the faults that the CAN BUS suggest, if it did, every ECU,sensor and relay, complete with wiring harness would have to be changed, the cost for that work would be more than the car is worth.
Raj got the car for a fair price in veiw of the troubles. The point is that MB could not fix it in the 5 years that the previous owner had it.
when a car goes to MB say with a seat fault, they say, you want 4 new motors, new switch bank, new wiring harness and ECU, and of coarse you cant fail to put it right.
This car is sign's of the times to come with motoring. My car is I year earlier than this one, and the differences would seem to show that this was a proto type for the 230 in many ways.
The last piece of info I put up should solve it, unless MB have already changed the ETC. With a CAN BUS this sends out signals to every part of the car and it expects a signal back saying OK, in this case the cicuit is incmplete due to this ETC that lets the can bus go open circuit.
Every one knows I use computer programs, you have to, its a mine field.
I found this last piece by looking for a cruise control fault, sinse it at the most only effects around 50 cars built in Aug01 then MB say well there could be a few others before this. it was well hiden. I must have at least 20,000 pages of info, I have not got long enough to live to read it all. I hope this makes the postings a little clearer.

Malcolm

 

[rajinder_1]

Guys,
Quick update. have had cars can links taken out and cleaned and connected firmly, oh and sprayed with some contact cleaner/lubricant super 10 - had this done 2 weeks ago - had all faults wiped last week as had not encountered the dreaded limp home or non start. Had the star on there yesterday and no can faults to report yet. car has been behaving well so i treated it to some aluminum pedals....

thanks to all that responded with suggestions and solutions much appreciated
special thanks to malcolm...

Regards

Raj

 

[television]

Just doing a summing up on this one. As anyone reading it would have seen the CAN BUS can give headaches. this one threw faults up about everything on the car being faulty, the only fault was that did not come up was the gearbox, as this is where the CAN BUS stopped. Back in thread number 46 I said to Raj, clean all of the multi plugs on box up to car, easier said than done, as Raj said his eng; did not fancy doing that, the next day I went out and looked at my SL and thought what a job, the amount of dismantling on a SL is horrendous and no room at all inside to work.
Its all fine now and Raj can be seen topless in Coventry. (we used to send people to Coventry)

The time is getting near where a car will get scrapped when a wiper fail's as the cost in a garage can be more than £1k. With CAN faults some cars in the near future may have a very short life, most garages including MB know very little of auto electrics, Add the CAN BUS and they know even less.

It has always been a fact that in electronics a design eng; Can draw out a complete circuit involving 1000's of components, should the thing go wrong he does not have a clue what to do, its a different way of thinking. This is the case in car electronics, but no one is being trained these days as it is so poorly paid. Is it OK that these so called MB engs; are trained to use a star machine that can say fault 121= xxx or 124 = yyy,if its not that they are lost. I have spent my life looking at wave forms, I run 5 oscilloscopes and mounds of other test gear, but I too am now on the scrap heap.

Malcolm