EUROPE - GOOD FRIENDS - BUT NOT OUR RULERS ?

[Frosty149]

English Common law is law laid down by tradition and common practice (simply). Not to be confused with statutory laws where the EU legislation is based.
The point Herbie makes (I think) is that in terms of base legislation we are aligned to the EU.
Actually this is a considerable headache for the English legislature on Brexit!

 

[geraldrobins]

British Common Law is the same as European law..?

I meant in the main such as murder, theft, fraud, etc being illegal.

 

[Frosty149]

From what I understand we do have control over our British laws. We just have additional EU ones as well - many of which we would probably have anyway.
As for the British way of life...to paraphrase an old joke:
We buy drive home from the office in our German cars wearing Italian suits, our favourite meal is Indian, we sit on Swedish furniture while watching Japanese TV sets and our women wear French perfume.
Just what is the British way of life?
And just why would EU membership alter it?
If you're going to go off on one of your immigrant spiels the UK has had immigration all its history. Before EU times there were the Indians, the Pakistanis, the Jamaicans, the French (1066 was their longest holiday ever), the Danes (also known to be long stayers), the Norwegians and of course the Romans as a start...
Every one of these groups has contributed to make Britain what it is today.

Consider also our considerable history of expansionism and consequently emigration - Americas, India, Australia etc etc. we are the immigrants to many foreign nations.

 

[Frosty149]

I meant in the main such as murder, theft, fraud, etc being illegal.

Which of course is right, but consider for example Human rights - our laws are bound up in EU legislation, also think corporate competition, trade etc our own statutes are currently tied as said - hence the headache.
Criminal law (to which you refer) is established.

 

[LostKiwi]

Consider also our considerable history of expansionism and consequently emigration - Americas, India, Australia etc etc. we are the immigrants to many foreign nations.

Except in most cases the immigration wasn't exactly sympathetic to the indigenous populations!
I do find it ironic that anyone from Europe (inc the UK) can actually complain about immigration and immigrants not integrating given their history with being immigrants to other countries.
Aborigines, American Indians, South American Indians and African nations would have much preferred the style of immigration we have now.

 

[Craiglxviii]

The difference is, expectations now are somewhat different to expectations then. Economic theory then was that territorial/ resource expansion was required to increase an economy; now it has been demonstrated that economies can grow internally through domestic consumption. Plus, there has been somewhat of a change in expectations of behaviour in dealing with Johnny Foreigner...

 

[LostKiwi]

Plus, there has been somewhat of a change in expectations of behaviour in dealing with Johnny Foreigner...

You mean beads, blankets rape and pillage are no longer acceptable trade goods?

 

[d215yq]

I didn't vote Brexit anyway.

along with most who thought immigrants were taking our jobs and suffocating our local economies were the ones who voted Brexit.

That's nothing, the OP is insinuating on the other thread that these immigrants seem to be implicated in the proposed diesel tax hikes and restrictions too

 

[Craiglxviii]

You mean beads, blankets rape and pillage are no longer acceptable trade goods?

Well maybe some judicious pillaging...

 

[Yugguy]

We could have sent a colossal amount of MEPs into Brussels. It would not have halted the federalist agenda.

 

[Frosty149]

Wouldn't have changed much really...

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

So why did the majority in our country vote to leave? so immigration is not a problem, saturated roads, hospital queues, many towns and cities which don't look like England anymore, we cannot deport criminals and hate preachers etc. Also the majority of working folk do not drive big Mercs and wear Italian suits etc.
Many immigrants voted out as they realised they needed to keep a lower profile and more flooding in would / could draw the more negative attention to them.
Anyway we are leaving and people need to help and make the best of it, it's no good just "licking your wounds". Herbie.

 

[davemercedes]

No politician really tried to change anything.
- Our MPs signed the treaties and carried on enjoying the glory.
- They could have tried to change things from within but nobody tried.
- And now we are trusting the same breed to get a good result with the Brexit negotiations!

The behaviour of Farage and his cronies was an utter disgrace. His personal lack of attendance was only beaten by one MEP who is seriously ill. They could not even be bothered to attend and vote when the EU were debating steel being dumped by China. The reason? A spokesman for Ukip said: “As a point of principle, Ukip does not vote in favour of the EU doing things on our behalf.”
- That principle must have been very encouraging for the Tata employees facing redundancy.

- None of that stopped them taking their salaries and expenses though (including Farage's bodyguard costs)!
- And he had the timerity to call the EU MEPs hypocrites!"

btw:
The first post in this thread refers to Total Control. Well, we lost control of our currency for a start and we're all paying the rippling-down cost of that (inflation now the highest since 2013 with worse to come). But Bumbling Boris says there are countries queuing up to do deals with us! And in the Tory manifesto, the woman who totally failed to control immigration when she had direct responsibility for it as Home Secretary is now claiming they will achieve it. But by the looks of it the only way to achieve that reduction is apparently by penalising employers (most of whom employ immigrants because they can't get enough UK staff to do the work that they have). I'm sure those employers will feel great about being back in control when their businesses fold.

 

[Frosty149]

Consider:
One of the consequences of the departure of immigrant labour to the construction industry is a shortage of skilled labour, which is currently enjoying a buoyant period;

1. If you are in construction management this may push up costs and extend deadlines.

2. If you are an English skilled tradesman you are in high demand and income may be enhanced.

Perspective and national considerations aside what vote would a political party expect in the above scenario?

 

[davemercedes]

Hee hee... I see from the news last night that there is no deadline for achieving immigration reduction.
- It's now described as "an ambition!" : -

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/80...line-slash-immigration-conservative-newsnight

After all, why should Theresa Maybe try to achieve what she failed to do for the last seven years?
- So even before the ink is dry they've already failed!

But she's going to rake some money in with her "dementia tax" !

 

[Headhurts]

Most people I believe disliked the scale of immigration which does not mean they dislike immigrants.

With the scale of immigration and the housing crisis we have there will be an impact on our housing shortage.

The greenery and trees are the lungs of the world they also cleanse the atmosphere yet we happily rip them up to build yet more homes, baffles me at times.

I personally like open spaces and dislike this headlong rush to keep building once gone it's gone.

The EU seems to not have a policy to deal with the problem which
Really needs tackling.

Had the EU shown leadership and a desire to tackle the mass immigration then maybe Brexit would not have happened.

It seems all the talk is about trade and money rather than quality of life.

I guess those leaving war torn countries are doing nothing that I would not do in their circumstance and we should try to tackle the problems at source.

Right I'm off to the Caymans to see what they can offer me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Frontstep]

Even UKIP want immigrants, they only ask for our country to control who, for what and how many.

It is strange though that the same old chestnuts about Farage in the EU still carry on, being a remoaner is clearly a long job.

Even the Boris jibes continue, yes believe it or not Johny Foreigner is beating a path to our door that's what his counterparts in the Foreign Offices or equivalent do for a living.
The question that should be asked is are they good deals ?
but I suppose having no understanding of international trade is de riguer for your average moaner.

I await Mr Mercedes et al announcing they don't want to trade with us post Brexit.

The French of course won't want us buying their foodstuffs or the odd Citroen.

Thankfully this nonsense was defeated in the referendum by it appears millions of old rich thick northern racists.

Its mildly amusing,
still the upcoming General Election should see an end to it all as Tim Farron is elected on a landslide surely.

I will have to accept the Democratic will of the people, should I wait up on election night with my bags packed ?

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

Most people I believe disliked the scale of immigration which does not mean they dislike immigrants.

With the scale of immigration and the housing crisis we have there will be an impact on our housing shortage.

The greenery and trees are the lungs of the world they also cleanse the atmosphere yet we happily rip them up to build yet more homes, baffles me at times.

I personally like open spaces and dislike this headlong rush to keep building once gone it's gone.

The EU seems to not have a policy to deal with the problem which
Really needs tackling.

Had the EU shown leadership and a desire to tackle the mass immigration then maybe Brexit would not have happened.

It seems all the talk is about trade and money rather than quality of life.

I guess those leaving war torn countries are doing nothing that I would not do in their circumstance and we should try to tackle the problems at source.

Right I'm off to the Caymans to see what they can offer me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi HEADHURTS, Your spot on in your post, IMHO, yes immigrants are not to blame for our situation, if you join a club where half the members have nowt and the other half have everything, then it is obvious what will happen, i am a "Brexiter" but my motive was overcrowding in most of Lancashire and the dominant race are Muslims who have no aptitude to integrate.
My family are big builders and we employ lots of Polish tradesmen, you cannot get better, within Brexit these workers can stay and be welcome, and more can come in, IF WE NEED them, not hundreds of the wrong kind coming in as they please , and if any immigrants carry out rape or murder etc, we can deport them, our prisons are full anyway.
If we get another political shock result like Trump and Brexit and the Libs or Labour get in, then it won't break my heart as i am starting to realise that the damage is allready done as millions are here and expanding fast. Herbie.

 

[LostKiwi]

Muslims are NOT a race - they are believers in Islam much the same as Christians aren't a race but are believers in Christianity.
You make wild generalisations when you talk the way you do. I know many Muslims who integrate well into UK society.
People who try to exclude them are to certain extent responsible for isolating the ones who don't integrate by marginalising them.
People will undoubtedly repeat the extremist mantra of "convert to Islam of die" but those who think that way are a small minority and often the very ones who have been marginalised by society.
Are they really that much different from the BNP thugs who go round beating up those who aren't white or the KKK in America?
In my view much of the issue in the middle east is a result of tribalism and intolerance and interestingly we see the west beginning to return to that same tribalism. Brexit is a form of it, as is Scottish independence (which I still find strange that so many who so ardently want independence from Europe are intolerant of the idea of Scotland wanting independence from England - it smacks of double standards!).
This is why I think the EU is a good idea as it brings nations together to sort out their differences and work around them rather than making them a cause for division.

 

[geraldrobins]

Hi HEADHURTS, Your spot on in your post, IMHO, yes immigrants are not to blame for our situation, if you join a club where half the members have nowt and the other half have everything, then it is obvious what will happen, i am a "Brexiter" but my motive was overcrowding in most of Lancashire and the dominant race are Muslims who have no aptitude to integrate.
My family are big builders and we employ lots of Polish tradesmen, you cannot get better, within Brexit these workers can stay and be welcome, and more can come in, IF WE NEED them, not hundreds of the wrong kind coming in as they please , and if any immigrants carry out rape or murder etc, we can deport them, our prisons are full anyway.
If we get another political shock result like Trump and Brexit and the Libs or Labour get in, then it won't break my heart as i am starting to realise that the damage is allready done as millions are here and expanding fast. Herbie.

Have the majority of Muslims you refer to come from the EU. The Polish are generally Christian I thought. I take your point about overcrowding but this is regional.