General Election...June 8

[Craiglxviii]

You ain't not never allowed one of them, them is for the elite what can afford it.

Ooh lor guvnor, bang ter rights...

I think it'd be more an outer and inner party thing though.

Eastasia is not at war with Eurasia. Eastasia is at war with Oceania.

 

[Frontstep]

Strikes me that:
If you're in favour of Brexit at any cost vote Tory or UKIP.
If you're in favour of Brexit but not at any cost vote Labour.
If you're not in favour of Brexit vote Lib Dems.

Of course it's all a bit more complex than that due to perception of fitness of actually do more than determine the way Brexit is implemented...

Surely votes for UKIP and the Dums are wasted votes as they have no chance of being elected.
UKIP are yesterdays news and the Dums have forgotten their values.

The only choice is Labour, Conservatives or not vote at all.
Entirely ridiculous situation even for pro Brexit people such as myself.

 

[LostKiwi]

No vote is a wasted vote. A vote for a party that cannot win is still not a vote for another party and if enough people think similarly then it has a real possibility of making a bigger difference

 

[Yugguy]

No vote is a wasted vote. A vote for a party that cannot win is still not a vote for another party and if enough people think similarly then it has a real possibility of making a bigger difference

Completely agree - you have to vote with your conscience. My wife is thinking vote Lib Dem because of this, because she agrees with more of their policies than those of the other parties. I'm pondering my vote seriously as yes, I want brexit but I'm really not a fan of our local tory mp. It's likely I will still vote for him because the importance of my vote nationally will outweigh this local consideration.

My message to everyone, right, left, centre, whatever, is to get out and VOTE.

 

[Craiglxviii]

No vote is a wasted vote. A vote for a party that cannot win is still not a vote for another party and if enough people think similarly then it has a real possibility of making a bigger difference

Yes... and no. If we look at the US election, their Green Party was (is) a fairly blatant Democrat false-flag operation and exists to bait otherwise Republican votes. So, while no vote is wasted per se, one must be very careful that it isn't wasted on the candidate & party for whom one is voting.

So, a Lib Dem vote (because one cannot decide who is the worst between the Conservatives & Labour) will (likely) translate into a party minority too small to allow it to resume kingmaker status- the vote may have been cast but its result is still meaningless due to the reality of the overall situation.

 

[LostKiwi]

Yes... and no. If we look at the US election, their Green Party was (is) a fairly blatant Democrat false-flag operation and exists to bait otherwise Republican votes. So, while no vote is wasted per se, one must be very careful that it isn't wasted on the candidate & party for whom one is voting.

So, a Lib Dem vote (because one cannot decide who is the worst between the Conservatives & Labour) will (likely) translate into a party minority too small to allow it to resume kingmaker status- the vote may have been cast but its result is still meaningless due to the reality of the overall situation.

However unless you have a crystal ball or are fairly certain of how your electorate will vote you have to vote how you think as others may think as you. Thats how upsets happen.

 

[Craiglxviii]

However unless you have a crystal ball or are fairly certain of how your electorate will vote you have to vote how you think as others may think as you. Thats how upsets happen.

Quite- and that shows you have a conscience. (How do you afford such luxuries?)

My point was, when voting for the a non mainstream- least- bad party, one needs to be very careful that the vote will count for something. Otherwise it's still as good as wasted.

 

[davemercedes]

Given the current political situation it's very difficult to believe that no vote is a wasted vote - unless you're pro-Tory and want to increase their margin even more. Personally I find it a real problem because the PM who I regard as an attention seeking self-interested MP (i.e.: the reasons behind her u-turn from Remain to Leave - and as I've said before, she was either lying then or she's lying now).

But what she has done by calling this general election (another HUGE u-turn of course having repeatedly denied it would happen!) is to virtually guarantee no effective opposition for the life of the next parliament which is very, very unhealthy: the opposition is there to call government to account and question what they do and why plus embarrass them if they are wrong etc. In earlier times (e.g.: when Maggie was in power, some members of her leading party effectively became the opposition) but I don't believe we have enough truly "honorable" members who will do this. So she and her party will be able to do absolutely whatever they feel like and ride rough-shod over all the others.

So I really find myself struggling because I've voted Tory for "ever" but I genuinely don't think I can this time and I'm afraid this brings me back to the general - voting for any other party this time round would be quite ineffective i.e.: a waste of my vote.

 

[LostKiwi]

The thing is Dave that many could be thinking along the same lines. Similarly a good few Tories may not bother to vote thinking the tories have it in the bag without them needing to make any effort. There is the potential for a closer vote than may be obvious.
Personally I've never been aligned to any particular party and have voted according to my (expensive ) conscience.

 

[Frontstep]

A vote for a loser is a wasted vote with our political system.
There certainly should be a voice for the disenfranchised but we haven't got it.
Candidates parachuted into "safe" seats has been a stain on our democracy for too long.

 

[Yugguy]

It will be interesting to see how Wales votes - as a country it voted for Brexit yet Plaid Cymru is for Remain.

 

[LostKiwi]

A vote for a loser is a wasted vote with our political system.
There certainly should be a voice for the disenfranchised but we haven't got it.
Candidates parachuted into "safe" seats has been a stain on our democracy for too long.

Unless we have a crystal ball we don't know who the loser is until after the vote.
Even "safe" seats get overturned.

 

[drmw]

Given the current political situation it's very difficult to believe that no vote is a wasted vote - unless you're pro-Tory and want to increase their margin even more. Personally I find it a real problem because the PM who I regard as an attention seeking self-interested MP (i.e.: the reasons behind her u-turn from Remain to Leave - and as I've said before, she was either lying then or she's lying now).

But what she has done by calling this general election (another HUGE u-turn of course having repeatedly denied it would happen!) is to virtually guarantee no effective opposition for the life of the next parliament which is very, very unhealthy: the opposition is there to call government to account and question what they do and why plus embarrass them if they are wrong etc. In earlier times (e.g.: when Maggie was in power, some members of her leading party effectively became the opposition) but I don't believe we have enough truly "honorable" members who will do this. So she and her party will be able to do absolutely whatever they feel like and ride rough-shod over all the others.

So I really find myself struggling because I've voted Tory for "ever" but I genuinely don't think I can this time and I'm afraid this brings me back to the general - voting for any other party this time round would be quite ineffective i.e.: a waste of my vote.

You seem to struggle with the concept of carrying out the specific wishes of the majority of those who voted in/out. That's not a u-turn, it's doing the job

 

[davemercedes]

The thing is Dave that many could be thinking along the same lines. Similarly a good few Tories may not bother to vote thinking the tories have it in the bag without them needing to make any effort. There is the potential for a closer vote than may be obvious.
Personally I've never been aligned to any particular party and have voted according to my (expensive ) conscience.

But I've always said that my vote went on the best of a lousy choice.

 

[LostKiwi]

But I've always said that my vote went on the best of a lousy choice.

Isn't any vote for a politician?
As the old maxim goes - Anyone who wants to be a politician should for that very reason be excluded from ever becoming one.

 

[Big Cheese]

Surely if there isn't a healthy opposition thats the fault of corbyn & the modern labour party.I would argue most working class people,especially in the area I live & have a business in voted to leave the E.U.There is only the tories & ukip that seem to want to push this through with labour sounding almost half hearted in there stance on brexit.The lib dems are non existent in the major working class areas of the country & only seem to appeal in the leafier suburbs of the country.If May doesn't become complacent it only looks like a landslide to me.I voted brexit & for many years had voted labour but shall do no more,endless borrowing in the blair & brown years to mask there failings of policy have turned me away.

 

[Frontstep]

As servant of the people surely being an MP demands adhere

Surely if there isn't a healthy opposition thats the fault of corbyn & the modern labour party.I would argue most working class people,especially in the area I live & have a business in voted to leave the E.U.There is only the tories & ukip that seem to want to push this through with labour sounding almost half hearted in there stance on brexit.The lib dems are non existent in the major working class areas of the country & only seem to appeal in the leafier suburbs of the country.If May doesn't become complacent it only looks like a landslide to me.I voted brexit & for many years had voted labour but shall do no more,endless borrowing in the blair & brown years to mask there failings of policy have turned me away.

Have you ever looked at the borrowing figures ?

I am no Labour Party fan but the Conservatives always borrow more and pay back less.

I suppose its down to the fools running the Labour Party at the moment that this fact doesn't adorn every billboard in the country.

Still it helps keep the lummoxes out of No 10

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/...epaid-more-than-the-conservatives-since-1979/

 

[AMGeed]

It seems it's not only Diane Abbott that is useless in the Labour Party at getting their facts or their maths right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ccused-googling-deficit-getting-figure-wrong/

 

[Craiglxviii]

It seems it's not only Diane Abbott that is useless in the Labour Party at getting their facts or their maths right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ccused-googling-deficit-getting-figure-wrong/

"Dammit Jim, I'm a politician not a professional mathematician!"

probably

 

[davemercedes]

Surely if there isn't a healthy opposition thats the fault of corbyn & the modern labour party.I would argue most working class people,especially in the area I live & have a business in voted to leave the E.U.There is only the tories & ukip that seem to want to push this through with labour sounding almost half hearted in there stance on brexit.The lib dems are non existent in the major working class areas of the country & only seem to appeal in the leafier suburbs of the country.If May doesn't become complacent it only looks like a landslide to me.I voted brexit & for many years had voted labour but shall do no more,endless borrowing in the blair & brown years to mask there failings of policy have turned me away.

It may well be the fault of Corbyn and other labour members although his refusal to go when it has been plain that he does not enjoy their support is a situation that the other MPs can't do anything (legal!) about. But for Corbyn to not recognise that he has effectively wiped out the opposition (and already have the brass neck to announce that "if" he loses the election he won't resign is an utter disgrace. But so also is the performance of Theresa May who claimed she wants to "ensure stability" (although she previously said an election would be the cause of instability!). So having denied that she would call an election before 2020 (at least six times, probably more) she abruptly performed one of her u turns. She's better on her toes than Dame Margot Fonteyn!

30 June 2016 - 4 September 2016 - 1 October 2016 - 2 October 2016 - 7 March 2017 - 30 March 2017 - 18 April 2017 (U-Turn)

Link: http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...resa-may-said-snap-election-was-terrible-idea

So as a result unless something incredibly strange happens, the Tories will have carte blanche to do just about anything for the next five years because the opposition efforts to call them to task will be futile. I think we should be worried that it will worsen over the life of the next parliament because as the opposition realises they have no strength they'll get weaker and weaker. Now that may be a ruthlessly clever way of playing the game but frankly it's not the kind of democratic situation we should have coming.

As I've said before, this election makes it even more likely that whatever the EU reluctantly gives her she will be able to claim she "negotiated" the best deal possible - and it certainly looks as though the voting public will have no say in the matter. Hmm... I wonder how many times she will be doing u-turns while the Brexit process is ongoing?