General Election...June 8

[Craiglxviii]

Well if you approached it like these suggestions, I'm surprised you are employed. Personally, I just either got told to "go and sort it out" or had just had to do it off my own bat. There are times for tough talking and even threats but the time is emphatically not before you've even started the process.

Some, I did. Some, I didn't. Situation- dependent every time. Exactly twice I've had ministerial- level political oversight on procurement projects that I've managed and one of those times had the same type of initial extreme position, tough talking stance that we see here. Both times things got crazy though. But this kind of talk really doesn't surprise me.

Remember, this is high diplomacy being played here. Negotiations are all very well and good but first one has to set the political bounds for those negotiations to be carried out in. Witness Trump and his Mexican wall, or his threats to Boeing. Same thing as Brexit just on a different scale. Threaten, take an extreme position, then meet your opponent a little more towards his position and walk away with a better result than would otherwise have been the case had it been played nicely nicely.

By the way, I'm good at my job. Ask John Laidlaw, we only just discovered that he and I sat on opposite sides of the negotiating table on several occasions...

 

[AMGeed]

Conservatives got 42.4% of the vote.
This means all the other parties got the remainder of the vote....over 53% = 10% more than the conservatives.
Conservatives got 318 seats
Other parties combined got 332 seats...

You still think Labour won don't you?

Lets simplify your quote.
Labour got 40% of the vote.
Therefore 60% of voters didn't vote Labour. Unless you are still using Abbotts maths books, that suggests the Conservatives and other parties had more votes and a bigger % than Labour.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Perhaps you'd rather have Corbyn lead the negotiations? It would all be over in a day as he'll give the EU exactly what they want.
At least May is prepared to play hardball and walk away if the deal is no good. Corbyn isn't bothered about UK finances when he was about to set the borrowing wheel rolling again had he got in.

You certainly haven't caught the mood of the Country, a bit like Theresa (Mayhem) she still thinks that she is in charge.
Where do you get the idea that Jeremy Corbyn wont be able to negotiate on behalf of The UK. This isn't coming from any personal or insider knowledge that you have. It is made up within your mind, never a good position to make rational decisions from.
TM or JC will not be going to Europe to negotiate on their own on behalf of the UK.
just like if Jeremy was in NO 10 tomorrow he could not get rid of Nuclear weapons, as it would need a majority vote in the commons, and that will never happen... Soundbites work for a small minority of the people, they no longer work for those who have a tendency to educate themselves about what is happening out there.
The soundbite bit is a reference to your Tory inspired Corbyn quotes.. Oh guess who won't be running another Tory election campaign...yes, the Aussie negative quote guy... wot's his name.

 

[Xtractorfan]

You still think Labour won don't you?

Lets simplify your quote.
Labour got 40% of the vote.
Therefore 60% of voters didn't vote Labour. Unless you are still using Abbotts maths books, that suggests the Conservatives and other parties had more votes and a bigger % than Labour.

I think this is what I said in my post, then you had the gall to turn it round and screw it to suit your reply...Tories got 42% of the vote so what is the point you are trying to make. They haven't enough seats to win without help from other parties.
In essence Jeremy Corbyn will remain leader of the Labour Party with no one trying to oust him...they wouldn't even dare.
Lets see what TM achieved... eeksss.... daggers out.. Now come on, who really won.. Go on, you know you wanna say it...

 

[Frosty149]

I think this is what I said in my post, then you had the gall to turn it round and screw it to suit your reply...Tories got 42% of the vote so what is the point you are trying to make. They haven't enough seats to win without help from other parties.
In essence Jeremy Corbyn will remain leader of the Labour Party with no one trying to oust him...they wouldn't even dare.
Lets see what TM achieved... eeksss.... daggers out.. Now come on, who really won.. Go on, you know you wanna say it...

JC won individual credibility and respect from his peers and with parts of the electorate.
TM lost credibility and respect from her peers and a large chunk of the electorate - I think that we all largely agree on this.

The Tory party have more seats and therefore won the election- not everyone voted for or against the leaders, some voted based on their local candidates or the principals of the respective parties.
Twist it any way you want - thems the facts...

 

[davidsl500]

I take Craigxviii's view on negotiations. It's the way it has been for decades, both sides start from an extreme position and settle somewhere in the middle - which side of the middle dependant on how good the negotiators are... The EU have already started this tactic with their €100 billion exit bill talk for the UK and other "scare" tactics. How many times in the past have we heard about the Unions wanting 15% and above pay increases for their workers and settling for 5%. It's the way it has always been. Trying to be reasonable at the start of negotiations means you will lose out because you have nowhere to go - unless you are prepared to hold that position steadfastly and walk away if they want more...

The problem with this election was there were 2 main voting concerns which conflicted for some voters. The vote to give power for Brexit was one and the other was to continue (Tory) or end (Labour) austerity. As Labour indicated that they would also leave the single market etc., many voted for the Labour Brexit solution and all those lovely bribes to the people especially the mobilised young and disgruntled pensioners. I presume that the remainers will have also voted mainly Labour as many see them as the soft Brexit option.

The EU must be laughing their socks off either way. They don't need to **** us up, we can do that quite nicely ourselves....

 

[davemercedes]

Perhaps you'd rather have Corbyn lead the negotiations? It would all be over in a day as he'll give the EU exactly what they want.
At least May is prepared to play hardball and walk away if the deal is no good. Corbyn isn't bothered about UK finances when he was about to set the borrowing wheel rolling again had he got in.

Don't put words in my mouth nor change the subject - we were discussing the approach to the negotiation and May's aggressive and crass pre-meeting "messages" like "I'm going to show them I'm a b****** awkward woman" etc. She has tried to play hardball before they have had one second of actual negotiation. Of course there may be a time for that and if a satisfactory settlement cannot be reached, that's what we will have and she will have failed - but firing broadsides before you've even seen the flag on the other ship is utterly stupid but she has run a serious risk of making Barnier decide to show he is a b***** awkward man, be be totally negative towards negotiations and not give an inch on behalf of - all 26/27 of them.

I don't and never have suggested appeasement but British people are supposed to be reasonable and well mannered.

 

[davemercedes]

I take Craigxviii's view on negotiations. It's the way it has been for decades, both sides start from an extreme position and settle somewhere in the middle - which side of the middle dependant on how good the negotiators are... The EU have already started this tactic with their €100 billion exit bill talk for the UK and other "scare" tactics. How many times in the past have we heard about the Unions wanting 15% and above pay increases for their workers and settling for 5%. It's the way it has always been. Trying to be reasonable at the start of negotiations means you will lose out because you have nowhere to go - unless you are prepared to hold that position steadfastly and walk away if they want more...

The problem with this election was there were 2 main voting concerns which conflicted for some voters. The vote to give power for Brexit was one and the other was to continue (Tory) or end (Labour) austerity. As Labour indicated that they would also leave the single market etc., many voted for the Labour Brexit solution and all those lovely bribes to the people especially the mobilised young and disgruntled pensioners. I presume that the remainers will have also voted mainly Labour as many see them as the soft Brexit option.

The EU must be laughing their socks off either way. They don't need to **** us up, we can do that quite nicely ourselves....

At least I agree with your last sentence, David!

 

[Frontstep]

Aren't we missing the point here, as Davis and Barnier have already shown we both want a good deal its in both our interests.

No deal always gives something to work towards.

A bad deal could take decades to unravel and do untold damage to both sides.

Its serious and tough business there is no room for prevaricators and the weak willed.

Its not a middle management jolly or nut procurement exercise.

Thankfully the Eurocrats will be under immense pressure from their countries business communities and Unions.

They know that the East circles with their goods, ill thought tariffs and we could soon be driving Lexus cars and using Panasonic white goods much more,

and our tables will grown with even more food from across the world, are they queuing up to do business with us ?

Of course they are, why wouldn't they.

Our future is very bright for those who look, for those whose heads are buried in la la land unable to see further than their navels who knows, agoraphobia maybe;

agoraphobia is derived from Greek words literally meaning "fear of the marketplace.

 

[Yugguy]

And there came from the land of Britain a prophet, whose name was Jeremy. And he cried aloud in the wilderness, and said, Behold, I bring you hope.

And it came to pass, in the land of Britain, that the High Priestess went unto the people and said, Behold, I bring ye tidings of great joy. For on the eighth day of the sixth month there shall be a general election.

And the people said, Not another one.

And they waxed wroth against the High Priestess and said, Didst thou not sware, even unto seven times, that thou wouldst not call a snap election?

And the High Priestess said, I know, I know. But Brexit is come upon us, and I must go into battle against the tribes of France, Germany, and sundry other holiday destinations. And I must put on the armour of a strong majority in the people’s house. Therefore go ye out and vote.

And there came from the temple pollsters, who said, Surely this woman will flourish. For her enemy is as grass; she cutteth him down. He is as straw in the wind, and he will blow away. And the trumpet of her triumph shall sound in all the land.

And the High Priestess said, Piece of cake.

And there came from the same country a prophet, whose name was Jeremy. His beard was as the pelt of beasts, and his raiments were not of the finest. And he cried aloud in the wilderness and said, Behold, I bring you hope.

And suddenly there was with him a host of young people. And he said unto them, Ye shall study and grow wise in all things, and I shall not ask ye for gold. And the sick shall be made well, and they also will heal freely. And he promised unto them all manner of goodly things.

And the young people said unto him, How shall these things be rendered, seeing that thou hast no money in thy purse?

And he spake unto them in a voice of sounding brass and said, Soak the rich. And again, Pull down the mighty from their seats.

And the young people went absolutely nuts.

And they harkened unto the word of Jeremy, and believed. For they said unto themselves, Lo, he bringeth unto us the desire of our hearts. He cometh by bicycle, with a helmet upon his head. And he eateth neither flesh nor fowl, according to the Scriptures. For man cannot live by bread alone, but hummus is quite another matter.

And the High Priestess saw all these things and was sore. And she gathered unto her the chief scribes and the Pharisees and said unto them, What the hell is going on?

And they said unto her, It is a blip, as if it were a rough place upon the road.

But they said unto themselves, When the government was upon her shoulders, this woman was mighty. But now that she has gone abroad unto every corner of the land, she stumbleth. For surely it is written that ruling and campaigning are as oil and water, and there shall be no concord betwixt them.

And the chief scribes wrote upon tablets, saying, Jeremy is false of tongue. He hideth wickedness in his heart. And his sums do not add up.

And nobody paid any attention.

And the elders rose up and said to the young people, If ye choose Jeremy, he will bring distress in your toils and wailing upon your streets. Do ye not remember the nineteen-seventies?

And the young people said, The what?

And the elders spake again, and said to the young people, Beware, for he gave succor in days of yore to the I.R.A.

And the young people said, The what?

And the young people said, Jeremy shall bring peace unto all nations, for he hateth the engines of war that take wing across the heavens. And he showeth respect for all peoples, even unto the transgender community.

And the elders said, The what?

And it came to pass that the heathen of this land came among the people, with fire and sword, and slew many among the faithful. And great was the lamentation.

And the High Priestess waxed exceeding wroth and said to the people, Fear not. For I shall bind your wounds and give ye shelter from the heathen, and shall take up the sword against them.

And there came again pollsters from the temple, who said, Will the people not vote for her in this hour of need?

And nobody paid any attention.

And it came to the vote.

And the elders went up to vote, and the young people. And the young people were as a multitude. And in the hours of darkness there was much counting. And the young people watched by night, and the elders went to bed.

And there came in the morning news that the High Priestess had vanquished the prophet Jeremy. But the triumph of the High Priestess was as the width of a nail. And she was vexed.

And the elders and the chief scribes and the Pharisees spoke among themselves, yea, even in the corners of their houses.

And there was great rejoicing amidst the multitude of the young. And they took strong wine, and did feast among themselves. And there were twelve baskets left over.

And of the pollsters there was no sign.

And the people saw Jeremy and said, Surely this man has won? Doth he not skip in gladness like a young hart upon the hills?

And there was great murmuring among the elders. And they said unto themselves, Weep not. For the High Priestess doth but prepare the way. Cometh there not one who is greater than she?

And they said, Behold, for the hour of the redeemer is upon us. And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Prince of Peace. And they cried in one voice, Boris.

And the young people said, Oh, ****.

And the people gave tongue, and made supplication unto the Lord, saying, Lord, let our cry come unto thee.

And the Lord thought the whole thing was absolutely hilarious.

And then the people said, Lord, what shall we do regarding Brexit? For henceforth the High Priestess shall be as weak as a newborn lamb. How shall we hope for continued access to the single market?

And the Lord said, The what?


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[davemercedes]

And there came from the land of Britain a prophet, whose name was Jeremy. And he cried aloud in the wilderness, and said, Behold, I bring you

And the Lord said...

Lo, you got yourselves into the mire verily did you vote and trust the politicians. Cometh and runneth not to me if thou breakest thy leg.

And the High Priestess saith (firmly). `Smelleth liketh a stable in here!`