Injector Inspection / Refurb'

[M80]

Today I removed the 6 injectors to be sent off for testing / refurb / replacement.

If the injectors are refurbished I'm assuming they can just be put back in the same cylinder without recoding.
One suffered trauma to the return post during removal and so may require a replacement. Again an assumption but my Star should be able to recode for this. I see that it calls for SCN coding is this an online process or just simply a Star stand alone process?

I've seen these people and their prices look reasonable, has any one experience of them?
RECONDITIONED FUEL INJECTOR JEEP MERCEDES C E GL ML R VITO 3.0D 0445115064 | eBay

 

[John Laidlaw]

Not heard of them, but a lot of folks have used these...
https://www.fiscardiff.co.uk/

 

[M80]

FIS in Cardiff have inspected and are returning the injecotrs, thanks for the link JL.

The exhaust was smoking pretty soon after start while warming up and later, so I expected a report of dripping or an injector that was over fueling. The testing shows 5 of 6 to be working in good order, the 6th is failing electrically and requires replacement.
That being the case I'm surprised that Star didn't bring up a fault.
More though is that electrical failure would surely mean the injector was failing to open to deliver any fuel, this has me stumped.

Any ideas?

 

[Westheath]

An ageing solenoid can get slower/stick/short/fail.
iirc
All star reports is estimated cylinder flow rate based on rail pressure ROI when the injector needle is lifted by the solenoid,
the ECU compensates with the electrical pulse to solenoid (longer/shorter) until its out of effective range.

 

[M80]

I'm not sure what you'r suggesting there Westheath.
As the Viano started easily and ran smoothly I can see that the injector was likely to be working before being removed.
I can see also that a sticking solenoid might cause the overfueling, and of course could explain the 'slightly' erratic and progressive nature of the issue.
I hope at least.

It is some coincidence that the injector failed electrically, that being an open circuit fault 'I assume', between its last run and reaching the test bed.

I will need to source a replacemnet injector. Can these be SCN coded with my stand alone Star?

 

[Westheath]

You asked why Star didn't report the electrical fault,
it doesn't see one unless there's a dead short I suppose.
Ive never tested for it and don't think I will be in case I brick the ECU.


I always tell customers that unless the injectors pull out only by hand,
they stand the chance of being damaged or needing re-calibrating/refurbishing
when removed mechanically by slide hammer or hydraulic puller etc

Even then if sent off in the post to be tested
the method of delivery and packaging can effect an injectors condition on arrival.

Yes
Coding by Star and many other Diagnostic units these days, Snap On, Launch, etc..............

 

[M80]

The injectors are back, and all test at around 182k ohm so not open circuit.
With that sort of reading they certainly aren't powerful so it wouldn't take much of an imperfection to hinder its opening / closing.
I'm now hoping that the faulty injector was struggling to close and so causing my over fuelling and smoking.
I've tried ringing FIS to confirm what is meant by 'failed electrically', but no answer. I'll try again Monday.

Anyway I've ordered a refurbed injector from the link I put up, so next week will be learning a bit more about the recoding.

 

[brianbrian]

When replacing injectors, always torque them.

 

[John Laidlaw]

Torque to them?

 

[M80]

It's a bit of a stretch but I'll give it a go.
When I've worked out which way up the injector goes, cos the way I thought it went the washer keeps falling off.

 

[M80]

No black death but I'm cutting the seats again anyway,
bolt threads cleaned and hole cleaned out, confirmed by running old bolt through to depth,
new bolts,
new injector washers,
hi temp grease onto injector shaft.
Does the 642 still tighten to 7Nm +90 degrees +90 degrees?

 

[M80]

Finally got around to getting the injectors back in, and it's still smoking

I haven't coded the new injector as I got an eBay message from the Star supplier.
He wants the Star to be returned as his Techy has apparently fouled up the instalation of some machines.
A further message warns that these faulty machines can screw up the ECU's on models unknown. Now of course I wonder if mine has been screwed up.

I can't believe how this frickin' saga has woked out, on and on and flippin' on.

 

[John Laidlaw]

Dreadful Martin, couldn’t make this stuff up!

 

[M80]

Groan, at the risk of boring the heck out of you all,
The Viano wasn't smoking until I reset the adaptations of the MAF, although I did perform other resets with the Star as well.
After the adaptation reset I drove 230 miles and didn't observe smoke, the consumption was worse than I would have expected.
The DPF temperature sensor had become faulty though, so I then replaced that. Soon after it started smoking.
If I drive it now the consumption is terrible, that with the smoking indicates that the fault has been progressive.

Injectors tested and one replaced but the fault is still there.

My Star supplier has indicated that the machine could damage the ECU, this now seems like a strong possibilty.
Since the injectors have come out the Star hasn't been near the Viano, so I can't check injector coding or fuel trims (and I'm not sure how to yet anyway).

It may be that a repaired Star machine, by the supplier, will allow me to interogate and rectify.
It may be that the Star machine has corrupted and maybe even damaged the ECU.

I am thinking that to take the Viano to a more expert Indie, with a known good Star, could be the best way forward.
My concern is that the engine oil has a wiff of what is likely to be fuel that's passed the rings, not strong so I'm not sure.
If the over fuelling is great what chance is there of causing damage due to the increased pressures in the cylinder/s?

I can't believe the bad luck of this saga and some fine adjustment with a sledge hammer would bring great amounts of satisfaction, if I wasn't so heavily out of pocket with the damn thing.

 

[John Laidlaw]

I’m thinking at this stage you’re right to be seeking Indie help- you’re now in a position where the dubious Star has no credibility- expensive lesson unfortunately but it could get worse without some intervention..

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Probably needs a software update to go along with your DPF sensor.

Did you replace the suspect injectors with new units? I posted in another thread that you cannot repair or overhaul Piezo injectors.

What sort of smoke is it? Blue, grey or black?

 

[M80]

Steve where have you been I've missed your input?
Grey smoke.
I didn't think these were Piezo, weren't they later than 2009. The 1 replaced is a refurb and very clear that there are new components. It came with a test report that if honest is beyond my limited ability to understand.
RECONDITIONED FUEL INJECTOR JEEP MERCEDES C E GL ML R VITO 3.0D 0445115064 | eBay

I'm hoping my Star will be delivered tomorrow, complete with re installed software. The supplier is adamant that my issue can't be caused by the machine he supplied, so I'm hoping this isn't just him avoiding any claim. But he seemed up front enough to recall the machine, "just in case" is his statement.

Clearly I'm learning as I go here and very possibly this is deeper than I should be delving when it comes to updating software, or even SCN coding injectors. I'm open to your opinion, and if honest wish you were closer.

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Work is flat out and Im a new father, there isn't enough hours in the day to scratch my arse let alone type on a forum!

All 642 engines have piezo injectors! If its grey/white smoking it would suggest an injector fault of some kind. According to one diesel specialist I have used, the 642 injectors are a nightmare to test, they have had issues where they pass all the nozzle spray tests and the electronics test but still give issues. You cannot overhaul the piezo anyway, so you are better off replacing them with new.

The only thing you will be able to code is the quantity correction data. Any software will have to be done online at an indie who can update software.

 

[M80]

Thanks Steve, your comments are gratefully received even though it's not what I wanted to hear.

A little update, the Star is ready and the seller wants to deliver to me, so not today 'at latest' as promised. But ebay are holding his funds, and this is because he told me to create a return case. He has asked ebay to repay him the funds and instead they refunded me. So I would be waiting another couple of days for new purchase of Star and don't know if it has purpose for this issue, in fact more likely not.

Diesels have become far more complicated than I like. While being more economical fuel wise when they go wrong the savings can soon evaporate.

After the praise from LK for sticking with this I think it's time to give up, I need to be mobile. Right now a ****** moped would serve greater purpose than the idle Viano.

The Viano has a good enough value to be repaired, and frustratingly it is the ideal van++ for my purposes - when running.
The Viano will need to be taken somewhere for repair, and as it seems to be over fuelling I have concern that hyro lock could be possible.

I'm really at a loss as to what next. A cheapo estate, a more costly nicer estate, a car based van??

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

I fix loads of these 642's and they are still one of the most simple diesels out there. Its all about knowledge, experience, what to look for and using the star machine to aid your diagnosis.

Don't take it the wrong way Martin, but in the hands of the inexperienced a STAR machine will be the most expensive code reader you will ever buy.