k&N filters

LostKiwi

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just that I could feel a noticeable difference in the cars performance
And thats the 10% thing. In order to feel a difference there would need to be close to a 10% improvement in power so if you claim to feel the difference you are either suffering from Placebo effect (i.e. deluding yourself) or you are significantly better at detecting small changes than the vast majority of people (including professional drivers).

You are almost correct in the rest of your post...
1. More air does not (as you correctly said) equal more power. Neither does more fuel (as you incorrectly said). The amount of additional fuel MUST be in proportion to the amount of air and will usually be close to the stoiciometric ratio (12.5:1 in a petrol engine is the stoichiometric ratio and maximum power is usually a 12:1 ratio or close to it). A modern injection engine will maintain the appropriate mixture for the air automatically as governed by Lambda control except at wide open throttle when the engine will run off the map with no override from the O2 sensors.
2. More air available does NOT increase fuel economy. For maximum economy the fuel mixture needs to be leaner than the stoichiometric ratio (typically it needs to be around 15:1 or for hyper efficient lean burn engines even 20:1 or more!) Less restriction to flow will improve economy AND power but that's not the same thing as more air. At low throttle openings there is a vast over capacity of flow for the small amount needed for a petrol engine at light throttle, which is when it will be returning economy. As the mixture in a modern injected engine is under lambda control at light throttle even a clogged filter will have a very limited effect on economy (unlike carburettor engines where it will make the mixture over rich and harm economy severely).
Air is not allowed to flow too freely because of restrictions in the form of the catalytic converter, the resonator, and the muffler.
At this point we aren't dealing with air - we're dealing with exhaust and that has totally different characteristics due to heat and residual combustion turbulence.

Also, in part, it takes time and money to design an excellent performing and free flowing exhaust system; something that car manufacturers just can’t afford to waste resources on.
Incorrect. Manufacturers spend a significant amount of money designing and reviewing exhaust design. My other half worked for a manufacturer on purchasing exhaust systems (hot and cold ends) and was regularly involved in meetings where the design had changed to implement improved efficiencies. Some of the design criteria may be different (refinement and packaging for example) but given the way manufacturers are chasing emissions and economy (the two are linked) the design in a modern engine is often difficult to significantly improve on as what is good for economy is often good for power. Many aftermarket systems do not deliver as in many cases they are done to a 'visual' if it looks right it is right methodology or are made to operate better over a very narrow power band (useful for headline marketing statements) whilst being inferior over the rest of the rev range.

Your car (SL350) is a normally aspirated petrol engine. A remap for an NA car will often map the pedal response differently to standard and advance the ignition as far as allowable. The former makes the car 'feel' more responsive as smaller pedal inputs mat to larger throttle movement over the initial part of the pedal travel. Just that alone can give the impression of more power.
Advancing the ignition timing can give a useful increase in power 10% (if you're lucky), even with a K&N, unless the original map was very poor or unless the new map changes the fuel usage from 95RON to 98RON.
You may have felt an improvement with the remap (and I'd be surprised if you hadn't given the pedal will have been 'adjusted') but I would really not expect you to see any noticeable difference with the K&N.
Even on the video links you posted (which is just some bloke with a Nissan so pretty 'random' in its own right) he only saw 5% difference which would no way be noticeable.
 
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Dave779

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I did not think I would receive lectures on mechanics and how the human brain perceives acceleration, just by stating how contented I am with an extra modification I have carried out on my car. The whole post was with the intent of letting fellow members know what 'my views' were and how contented I was (placebo or not). Incidentally the remap and exhaust mod was done over 12 months ago so would not effect my view of the recent add on.
 

LostKiwi

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I did not think I would receive lectures on mechanics and how the human brain perceives acceleration, just by stating how contented I am with an extra modification I have carried out on my car. The whole post was with the intent of letting fellow members know what 'my views' were and how contented I was (placebo or not). Incidentally the remap and exhaust mod was done over 12 months ago so would not effect my view of the recent add on.

No... you said "A lot more smooth power and a good increase in mpg" - a statement of fact which is what we take issue with. You cannot get 'a lot more (smooth) power' from fitting a different air filter unless the old one was clogged or the old one was badly designed or fitted.

Incidentally have you looked at the filtration qualities (or lack of) with K&N filters?
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
 

v8disco

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This is actually very interesting. I work for a fuelling manufacturer and some years ago tried a little experiment. I took my then company Renault Laguna and stuck in on the rolling road for a bench mark figure. I then swapped the air filter for a k and n and tried it on the road and it felt livelier and sounded a little more rorty, so if had spent £50 on it I would have been happy. Back on the rolling road, not one bhp more. I then put in a .5 bar increased fuel pressure regulator on the basis that extra air needed extra fuel and at wide open throttle the engine would not be lambda controlled so I should see a difference, and on the road, it definitely felt even better and the engine seemed to spin up much more freely, but again, not a single BHP increase. So Would I spend my money on one, yes, probably as the perceived benefit I felt to be tangible, but I wouldn't expect any benefit to be shown in cold hard bhp.


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John Laidlaw

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I did not think I would receive lectures on mechanics and how the human brain perceives acceleration, just by stating how contented I am with an extra modification I have carried out on my car. The whole post was with the intent of letting fellow members know what 'my views' were and how contented I was (placebo or not). Incidentally the remap and exhaust mod was done over 12 months ago so would not effect my view of the recent add on.
As I said before Dave, just enjoy!
 

Craiglxviii

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Also, in part, it takes time and money to design an excellent performing and free flowing exhaust system; something that car manufacturers just can’t afford to waste resources on. This is where aftermarket companies come in to create cost effective options for performance minded car owners. Of course, a free flowing exhaust would be expected to make more noise than a normal one. But a good manufactured system has a deep throaty tone, while yielding increases in horse power and also passing emission tests.

I could tell you how much automaker OEMS spend on designing and developing exhaust systems- which, by the way, have to meet power & emissions regulations for every country and market in the world simultanaeously- but then I'm bound by an NDA.

Some public domain numbers... Toyota's R&D budget for 2015 works out to £7.1bn. Or cut another way, the cost of two aircraft carriers (I think they're the going comparison for money nowadays). In terms of Engine R&D, an ongoing multi-year study project to look at engine breathing efficiency improvements- a fairly small project co-funded by Japanese automakers and the Japanese gubmint- is budgeted at $20m per year, for a team of around 30 engineers.

Put K&N's current annual nett profit margin of $13m into that mix then tell me that they have the resources to develop something that will suit a carmaker's engine better than the carmaker can. Yes, the carmaker builds parts to a certain cost but that cost comes in on the heels of defined performance.
 

Craiglxviii

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I did not think I would receive lectures on mechanics and how the human brain perceives acceleration, just by stating how contented I am with an extra modification I have carried out on my car. The whole post was with the intent of letting fellow members know what 'my views' were and how contented I was (placebo or not). Incidentally the remap and exhaust mod was done over 12 months ago so would not effect my view of the recent add on.

Well, that's thread drift for you. You do raise an interesting subject though- just how pervasive the placebo effect combined with confirmation bias can be. it's a powerful tool in the sales armouries of many an aftermarket company.
 

Wighty

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Stick a cetane enhancing additive in the fuel tank as well and it will feel like a rocket ship :D
 
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Dave779

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Well I am happy with it and am also happy with the filtration system of my K&N filter so I guess it is the end of this interesting topic.
 

LostKiwi

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Well I am happy with it and am also happy with the filtration system of my K&N filter so I guess it is the end of this interesting topic.
If you're happy then great.
 

Rappey69

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I would never use a k&n airfilter ...
Bought another honda quad, which had a k&n fitted, with outerwear ! Took it off for a clean and oil and was horrified to see how much fine dust there was in the inlet manifold !
Looks like everything ive read about larger holes in the k&n to improve airflow really does let in all the dust particles too !
A standard filter never lets any dust past.
 

mercedes13156

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I've read this all the way through and learned a few things along the way. A few services ago I threw the old air filter in the bin before I opened the new one to discover I'd been given the wrong one. My son had tipped the ash from the barbecue in the bin as well so the old one wasn't going back in. So, I had to drive to the parts shop with no filter. It was a bit louder but no more powerful and the new filter just put it back to where it was with the old mucky filter.

It's hard to see how a performance filter would have improved a "no filter" situation which didn't improve anything at all. As said above " You can't beat the laws of physics".

Thank you for the lesson my learned friends.
 


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