Manchester attack news

[Yugguy]

Ok then!

To put this in perspective for you all again as the other thread is closed.

There have been just over 150,000 terrorist attacks globally by all types of fanatic since 1970. If EVERY single one was conducted by a Muslim it would account for 0.00009% of the Muslim population in the world.

Now tell me it's not a minority.....!

What of the stats for UK attacks in the last 10 to 15 years?

 

[C350Carl]

I listed those as well in the other thread. But to remind everyone.


Out of 29 attacks the following attacks in the UK since 2000 are down to Jihadist/Islamist terrorists.

7 July 2005 - Suicide attack in London
30 June 2007 - Glasgow Airport Attack
22 May 2008 - Exeter attempted bombing in Giraffe Cafe
22 May 2013 - Lee Rigby Murder
5 Dec 2015 - Leytonstone Tube station Knife attack
22 March 2017 - Westminster Attack
22 May 2017 - Manchester Arena Attack.

There have also been a number of attacks prevented by the security services. 16 of them were major attacks which would have resulted in multiple loss of life had they not been prevented.

If you were to specifically look at the UK from 1970 then we should all be suspicious of Catholics still!

As Dave has pointed out. Some of the perceived failure of Muslims to stand up is due to fear of reprisal.

It's a bit like you wouldn't see very many devout Catholics stood on the Falls Rd in Belfast during the 80's & 90's condemning PIRA (or other republican terrorist groups) just as much as you wouldn't see many devout Protestants condemning loyalist paramilitaries in the Shankill.

 

[Craiglxviii]

What of the stats for UK attacks in the last 10 to 15 years?

Carl posted this in the closed thread.

Something to bare in mind here is that, according to data held by the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre, from 2001-2015 (2016 stats will be added later this year once consolidation and the exhaustive checking process is completed) there have been just over 167,000 deaths related to terrorism worldwide.

78% of them have been in 25 Muslim majority countries. Almost 98% were outside of the US and Western Europe. Deaths in the US and Western Europe account for approx 2%.

A few other statistics for those still reading:

From 1970 - 2015 The FBI's own data says that 91% of terrorist attacks in the US were carried out by Non-Muslims

Since 1970 there have been just over 140,000 terrorist attacks worldwide. Even if every single one of those attacks were carried out by a Muslim it would still only equate to 0.00009 of the world population of Muslims.

In the years 2010 - 2016 there have been just over 1100 terrorist attacks in Europe. 1.8% were carried out by Muslims or in the 'name of Islam'.

So the problem here is not down to Muslims as a whole or their religion. It is the minuscule minority of fcukwits and the excessive reporting by western media when the attacks are carried out by these oxygen thieving cnuts!

 

[davemercedes]

I think the main thing atm is to hope that all the arrests really mean our police are actually catching some of this supposed network. As if the job isn't hard enough, the pressure on the police to make arrests and secure convictions for this sort of offence must be unbearable but I would be very disappointed to see an announcement in a few weeks time that they have released them all and so we're left in "Limbo".

 

[Craiglxviii]

The fear of reprisal is all part of the "battleground of the people" thing.

Village with indolent, lazy, selfish headman says nothing against ISIS. Gets left alone.

Village with active, popular headman makes protest against ISIS. Headman goes missing. Village gets told, "Hou can find your headman at the end of Shakalakadakka St. And in the warehouse on Insh'Allah Square. And by the river..."

 

[Frontstep]

Ok then!

To put this in perspective for you all again as the other thread is closed.

There have been just over 150,000 terrorist attacks globally by all types of fanatic since 1970. If EVERY single one was conducted by a Muslim it would account for 0.00009% of the Muslim population in the world.

Now tell me it's not a minority.....!

The fear of reprisal is all part of the "battleground of the people" thing.

Village with indolent, lazy, selfish headman says nothing against ISIS. Gets left alone.

Village with active, popular headman makes protest against ISIS. Headman goes missing. Village gets told, "Hou can find your headman at the end of Shakalakadakka St. And in the warehouse on Insh'Allah Square. And by the river..."

The problem is the ideology or religion which is why the "reforms" need to come from the top, nobody in their right mind is going to march up to Isis thinking a few words will sort them (except jeremy of course)

Muslim terrorism is overwhelmingly behind the majority of terrorist caused deaths in the world.
Muslims usually killing Muslims.

To call it a peaceful religion in its current form is a misnomer.

The majority of its followers choose to follow the peaceful path contained within, too many follow and allow the other.

I don't blame the majority for the sins of the minority but those who don't see a need for change are culpable

 

[C350Carl]

The problem is the ideology or religion which is why the "reforms" need to come from the top, nobody in their right mind is going to march up to Isis thinking a few words will sort them (except jeremy of course)

Muslim terrorism is overwhelmingly behind the majority of terrorist caused deaths in the world.
Muslims usually killing Muslims.

To call it a peaceful religion in its current form is a misnomer.

The majority of its followers choose to follow the peaceful path contained within, too many follow and allow the other.

I don't blame the majority for the sins of the minority but those who don't see a need for change are culpable

In that case then we need to change every religion in the world.

A few stats for you, which you'll probably ignore:

Since 2001 there have been just over 167,000 deaths from terrorism globally.

A minimum of 87,442 (52.3%) and a maximum of 88,763 (53.1%) were attributable to Islamists/Jihadis (Don't get too excited just yet Frontstep! You need to understand this fully and not cherry pick)

Figures aren't fully accurate due to some attacks not having a complete death toll independently confirmed. EG Mumbai, Suicide attacks in Syria and Iraq etc. The minimum is verified and the maximum is the maximum reported.

Now to put in perspective.

The Muslim caused deaths have shot up since 2010. Of the maximum 88,763 fatalities which are attributable to Islamists/Jihadis since 2001 55,446 (62.5%) happened between 2010-2015.

29,356 (52.9%) of those 55,466 deaths happened in 2014 & 2015

Muslim terrorists are only behind the majority of terrorist caused deaths in the last 3yrs.

Before that across the globe it was.......

Christians!

 

[Frontstep]

So when I write;

"Muslim terrorism is overwhelmingly behind the majority of terrorist caused deaths in the world.
Muslims usually killing Muslims"

by your own words I am correct.

Why not just accept the problem ?

Trying to bury the problem in a post that goes a tortuos way around saying yes your right but you wouldn't have been x number of years ago seems a very strange thing to do.

If you want to start another post on other terrorist groups of Christian ideology attacking innocent children then happily I will without equivocation condemn them.
We are talking about the current Manchester bombings and Muslim terrorists I believe.
They are our and the worlds biggest current problem.

As to the worlds other religions which other religions have currently active terrorist groups in the UK or Europe ?

 

[C350Carl]

So when I write;

"Muslim terrorism is overwhelmingly behind the majority of terrorist caused deaths in the world.
Muslims usually killing Muslims"

by your own words I am correct.

Why not just accept the problem ?

If you cherry pick your stats then yes you are. If you look at deaths across the globe since 1970 then it's Christians

Nowhere have I said that Islamist extremists isn't a problem. Given my profession I think I know better than most it's a real problem.

If you want to start another post on other terrorist groups of Christian ideology attacking innocent children then happily I will without equivocation condemn them.
We are talking about the current Manchester bombings and Muslim terrorists I believe.
They are our and the worlds biggest current problem.

Pretty much all terrorist groupings have killed innocent children. Look at the bombings the IRA etc used to conduct.

You're correct Islamist extremist are the biggest current problem. But my point is that the majority can't be blamed for the minority as you seem hell bent on trying to prove. Even though the FACTS prove you otherwise.

At best you're just acting a naive fool, suckered in by western media and Faceache. At worst you're coming across as an Islamophobe!

As to the worlds other religions which other religions have currently active terrorist groups in the UK or Europe ?

To name a few....

Real IRA
Continuity IRA
PKK
Revolutionary Struggle (predominantly Greece)
Revolutionary People's Liberation Party

Maybe you missed this that I posted in the now closed thread:

In the years 2010 - 2016 there have been just over 1100 terrorist attacks in Europe. 1.8% were carried out by Muslims or in the 'name of Islam'.

 

[Frontstep]

If you cherry pick your stats then yes you are. If you look at deaths across the globe since 1970 then it's Christians

Nowhere have I said that Islamist extremists isn't a problem. Given my profession I think I know better than most it's a real problem.




Pretty much all terrorist groupings have killed innocent children. Look at the bombings the IRA etc used to conduct.

You're correct Islamist extremist are the biggest current problem. But my point is that the majority can't be blamed for the minority as you seem hell bent on trying to prove. Even though the FACTS prove you otherwise.

At best you're just acting a naive fool, suckered in by western media and Faceache. At worst you're coming across as an Islamophobe!




To name a few....

Real IRA
Continuity IRA
PKK
Revolutionary Struggle (predominantly Greece)
Revolutionary People's Liberation Party

If you cherry pick your stats then yes you are. If you look at deaths across the globe since 1970 then it's Christians

Nowhere have I said that Islamist extremists isn't a problem. Given my profession I think I know better than most it's a real problem.




Pretty much all terrorist groupings have killed innocent children. Look at the bombings the IRA etc used to conduct.

You're correct Islamist extremist are the biggest current problem. But my point is that the majority can't be blamed for the minority as you seem hell bent on trying to prove. Even though the FACTS prove you otherwise.

At best you're just acting a naive fool, suckered in by western media and Faceache. At worst you're coming across as an Islamophobe!




To name a few....

Real IRA
Continuity IRA
PKK
Revolutionary Struggle (predominantly Greece)
Revolutionary People's Liberation Party

Surely you can't resort to the Islamophobe and naïve jibes because I am pointing out that the world is having problems with Islamic terrorism it is not a vacuos insult its true.



Its not an invention of western media or the facebook I have never used, its very real and here.

The other groups you mention why ?

I am not "blaming" the majority.

Post 46 "The problem is the ideology or religion which is why the "reforms" need to come from the top"

and "The majority of its followers choose to follow the peaceful path contained within"

By all means insult me if it makes you feel better but try and be accurate,
I am not naïve, a fool, gullible or an Islamophobe.

I just speak the uncomfortable truth, those in charge of ignoring the elephant need a new purpose in life, theres too many innocents sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.

 

[Craiglxviii]

So you both agree that radical Islam is the problem...?

I'd be interested to know who was sacrificed for political correctness?

 

[davemercedes]

Changing the sub-division a little, the news media channels have all got stories about declining police numbers with the obvious question of the impact on both intelligence and strength of response (I mentioned earlier that Amber Rudd just dismissed - I thought a little too quickly - the strength question out of hand on BBC Question Time).

- But there's another more narrow subject which appears on Sky and Reuters i.e.:

UK govt 'was warned about danger of British extremists returning home'
http://news.sky.com/story/uk-govt-w...of-british-extremists-returning-home-10894536

So my question is, what impact could this have had on our ability to be

i) ready for this awful event and/or
ii) deal with it when it happened?

 

[PovertySpec]

I'd be interested to know who was sacrificed for political correctness?

Clicky Linky

I expected more from you.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Clicky Linky

I expected more from you.

Right- we were talking radical Islamic terrorism & insurgency. That's a WHOLE other issue.

 

[davemercedes]

Okay guys, let's cool it a bit.
- As we all know, we lost 22 beautiful people - most of them totally innocent children.

There are many unanswered questions and getting at each other doesn't help very much. I know that all of us would give our proverbial right arm to have those kids back so let's discuss things objectively and without bias?

 

[Craiglxviii]

Changing the sub-division a little, the news media channels have all got stories about declining police numbers with the obvious question of the impact on both intelligence and strength of response (I mentioned earlier that Amber Rudd just dismissed - I thought a little too quickly - the strength question out of hand on BBC Question Time).

- But there's another more narrow subject which appears on Sky and Reuters i.e.:

UK govt 'was warned about danger of British extremists returning home'
http://news.sky.com/story/uk-govt-w...of-british-extremists-returning-home-10894536

So my question is, what impact could this have had on our ability to be

i) ready for this awful event and/or
ii) deal with it when it happened?

That story doesn't even consider the possibility that we might have been aware of that danger and had put in place what provisions we could to thwart it.

I said before, five plots foiled to date since Mar 22nd. That's a sustained attack, it's a concerted and coordinated strategy and by definition doesn't rely on either goat fcukers returning to Sparkhill from Syria or homegrown radicals in Leeds. It unifies all available resources and directs them into a common direction.

 

[PovertySpec]

Right- we were talking radical Islamic terrorism & insurgency. That's a WHOLE other issue.

No, we're not.

Clicky Linky 2

Long listen but worthwhile.

 

[C350Carl]

Changing the sub-division a little, the news media channels have all got stories about declining police numbers with the obvious question of the impact on both intelligence and strength of response (I mentioned earlier that Amber Rudd just dismissed - I thought a little too quickly - the strength question out of hand on BBC Question Time).

- But there's another more narrow subject which appears on Sky and Reuters i.e.:

UK govt 'was warned about danger of British extremists returning home'
http://news.sky.com/story/uk-govt-w...of-british-extremists-returning-home-10894536

So my question is, what impact could this have had on our ability to be

i) ready for this awful event and/or
ii) deal with it when it happened?

Not intending to teach you to suck eggs here so apologies if it comes across that way.

The problem is the evidence required by our laws.

Unless the authorities can prove in a court of law, beyond any reasonable doubt, that these fcukwits have been a fcuktard in Syria/Iraq and then pose a threat to the UK. There isn't much that can be done.

Hence the length of time people are put under surveillance. To gain the evidence required.

As for being prepared for and dealing with the event. Despite the cuts we (the UK) are prepared for these sort of events, more so since the Gov woke up to the warnings of the intelligence community after Mumbai. And even more so now since the Paris attacks. You only have to look at the responses to Manchester and Westminster. A little bit of luck was involved with Westminster in that DefSec protection was in the vicinity and could react quickly.

The problem for us is knowing when and where it will happen. Unfortunately that's something that we will never always know. Most of the time the action taken is preventative. But unfortunately on some occasions, like Manchester and Westminster, we will have to be reactive.

 

[C350Carl]

Surely you can't resort to the Islamophobe and naïve jibes because I am pointing out that the world is having problems with Islamic terrorism it is not a vacuos insult its true.



Its not an invention of western media or the facebook I have never used, its very real and here.

The other groups you mention why ?

I am not "blaming" the majority.

Post 46 "The problem is the ideology or religion which is why the "reforms" need to come from the top"

and "The majority of its followers choose to follow the peaceful path contained within"

By all means insult me if it makes you feel better but try and be accurate,
I am not naïve, a fool, gullible or an Islamophobe.

I just speak the uncomfortable truth, those in charge of ignoring the elephant need a new purpose in life, theres too many innocents sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.

The religion/ideology isn't the problem. This is the whole point of my argument with you.

Christianity hasn't been rewritten/changed for centuries. Neither has the Quran. The verses/texts that are taken out of context are still there.

It's the fcuktards twisted interpretation of it. That is where the problem lies.

So we either rewrite every religion. Or we show those who don't understand that the texts are being twisted and used out of context to justify terrorism.

If you can't see that then to save this thread going even further down a narrow path I'll just agree to disagree with you.

 

[davemercedes]

Not intending to teach you to suck eggs here so apologies if it comes across that way......
.....be reactive.

Not at all Carl.
- Maybe it's time our (UK) border patrol had a bit more "discretionary" power...

- You try entering Saudi Arabia in November/December - if they think you might have a Christmas Tree or Crib in your luggage you ain't going nowhere until they've stripped out absolutely everything in your luggage!

- Sadly, none of that helps with the Manchester incident.