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Miracle paint rust treatment. Any good?

Discussion in 'Bodywork, Tyres, Wheels & Trim' started by sabine, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. sabine

    sabine Senior Member

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    Rusty w220 miracle paint the solution?

    Evening all,

    I have a rusty w220, inner wings, all the usual places. *Having watched the excellent mercedessource videos on YouTube I would like to know if anyone has used the miracle paint, the virtues of which are extolled endlessly, by the chap on the video.

    If it's any good where can one get it in the Uk?

    I like the idea of soaking fibre glass in it to cover holes in the inner wings for example.

    Your thoughts please.
     
  2. daveenty

    daveenty Senior Member

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    Not seen the stuff of which you speak, though I do know that the only real way to get rid of rust is to cut it all out and replace with new metal.

    Anything else is just prolonging the inevitable in my opinion...
     
  3. OP
    sabine

    sabine Senior Member

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  4. Rappey69

    Rappey69 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    Por 15 is actually very good, but ...
    requires 3 different coatings and the finish is very thick, so no good on visible panels..
    the theory behind por15 is that is drys to a 100% seale finish, eliminating the possibility of any moisture permeating through the paint.
    Epoxy coating has to be the ultimate..
    A steel boat is blasted back to bare steel then expoxied, which lasts around 10-15 years in the sea !
    I,ve played around with a few anti rust products on a ship, and concluded hammerite is actually much better than a lot of these anti rust treatments.
    fibreglass on steel is a big no.. the two expand and contract at different rates and amounts so it would come unstuck in no time..
     
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  5. OP
    sabine

    sabine Senior Member

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  6. darkchild101

    darkchild101 Senior Member

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    So is Hamerite any good on cars?
     
  7. Durkee Atwood

    Durkee Atwood New Member

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    Miracle Paint

    I have seen Miracle Paint used in several different ways in the US. The most impressive was with glass mat. This was the thicker version and the finish was truly amazing and very hard. There are no stockists in the UK and I find that very surprising since its use with historic military vehicles is a great answer to rust problems. The trouble with cutting away and welding is that the heat often creates rust on the older steels and tends to add to the problems later. Rust, is oxidisation and the exclusion of oxygen is key. Miracle Paint (heavy duty) manages to do this and provides a hard coat that makes it a great replacement for lead based paints usually used to prime. Since most historic military vehicles have a drab (matt) topcoat that is not particularly water resistant, so this coating makes sense.

    I have found that Hammerite smooth is difficult to key into and top coats can easily scratch. Miracle Paint (it's a typical pathetic US name) can be successfully coated and I find that offers a real bonus. The patches I have witnessed on panels have been amazingly thin and as the holes can be recessed in the same way that a weld patch would be it can be finished flush.

    I did't see it, but I would imagine the glass mat was supported. Much of the thickness was the other side, which figures. Either that or an inner layer of glass mat was allowed to dry and set and a carefully cut sheet of mat was placed in the dished area and built up until flush. Of course military vehicles is one thing and inner wings on Mercedes is something else. I would definitely use it on my Willys MB but I would would have to think hard about how to bridge a rust hole in my Series-A MB. But I think if anything can, this can. Whoever decides to import and stock it would find a ready market with military vehicle enthusiasts to offset the shipping and stocking costs for the smaller market of the DIY modern auto restorer.
     
  8. turbopete

    turbopete Senior Member

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    even the POR15 has to really be applied to 'good' metal. it SAYS it converts it from corrosion and then seals it preventing it rusting again, but my experiment on my old 210 with the stuff would suggest otherwise. I followed the instructions for it to the letter, then painted the wheelarches etc as per the instructions and when id finished painting, although the job itself was unfinished (needed flatting and polishing where the new paint joined the old) it looked pretty good for a job done in a dusty garage with no heat, water traps etc and just a spray gun attached to a small compressor.
    anyhow, when I got rid of the car about 6 months later, there were signs that the rust was beginning to bubble up again under the new paint, and would be visible before too much longer. I'm sure its great for decent metal, but already rusted stuff, I'm not convinced
     
  9. Rappey69

    Rappey69 Senior Member

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    Fibreglass is a polyester resin, which given time comes unstuck from everything! To fix fibreglass (grp) you need to rough the hell out of it over a large area in order for new grp to stick.
    Boat builders encapsulate various boat parts in the miracle grp and have since discovered it does not work in the long term..
    fertan, red oxide, rustoleum, etc, all tested by me and the verdict - rubbish.
    The best single pack ive ever found is hammerite straight onto steel - but apparently they have removed some of the contents now so even hammerite is not as good as it was!
    Im currently using red lead on rusty steel and so far the results look amazing.especially along the waterline. time will tell though.
     

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  10. swrural

    swrural Registered

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    I've found Miracle Paint on ebay at abot £55 inc. Pand P. Ouch. Anyone have positive experience with this product please? First posting so forgive if already dealt with elsewhere.
     
  11. peterws1957

    peterws1957 Senior Member

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    The hint I think is in the name of the product- no such thing as a miracle. In probably 40 years of messing about with rust I've never come across any of these rust converter applications that actually work. Having said that, contrary to some opinions on this old thread I think POR 15 is a good product, although I tend to use on good metal only where possible. I did paint some inaccessible areas for complete rust removal on the floor pans and chassis of a car with POR15 about 10 years ago and it's still bright and shiny today with no signs of rust coming through. Weirdly it dries better and harder in warm wet conditions. As mentioned above Hammerite is nowhere near as good as it used to be and no definitely don't apply fibreglass as a repair to metal like was done in the 60's/ 70's!
     
  12. DREAMER NO2

    DREAMER NO2 Senior Member

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    In the end a new wing would be the best way to go . And after the repairs are made to original wing , along with the paint job a new wing will be cheaper and last longer. Or do what i did , and look for a good second hand original wing .And if lucky ready painted as it was removed from a donar car of C9hF6Fd.jpg the same colour . Removal and fitting is easy .The luck of the draw is if it fits good ,originals are a pice of cake after market are a bit more time consuming to fit .Not the same car as yours but the same sort of DSC03314.JPG job .
     
  13. thebiglad

    thebiglad Senior Member

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    Why would you use fibre glass on underbody repairs ??? Why not put in new metal. Seems bodgy to me.
     
  14. 00slk

    00slk Senior Member

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    There is really no substitute for new metal to be replacing old rusty metal.
    The secret is to stop air and water penetrating through the protective coating once done.
    I have tried all sort of these wonder products that are supposed to be the end all and find only a couple prolong the rust a little longer before is rusting again or the filler falls out.
    Preventing rust starting is the key. Car Manufacturers have come up with ways to make their products fairly robust against rusting by Galvanising and zinc coatings, plus all alloy parts, but these will still rust and corrode over time with use. The best way of stopping rust once it starts eating away at your prize procession is to cut out the rusty bit which will be far greater on the inside than the out which can be seen, weld in a new piece and then seal it from any air and water getting to the bare metal which will and can be difficult once the repair is done. Stopping air and water getting to bare metal stops the rust starting in my view. Which I've already mentioned in my second sentence :rolleyes:
    Another way of slowing the rusting bits down is to use sulphuric acid with is very dangerous and can corrode the metal over time anyway. :shock:
    These rust treatments you get from motor factors are water based which to me seems to defect the idea as water and bare metal don't mix. I have found some will form a type of coating over the rusted area and slow the rust down, others will turn the panel from rusty brown to black making it look like it is working, which it is, but it only slows the rusting process down. (gives you an extra 3 months to sell your car as rust free)
    This product which this thread is really about sounds good, looks good, but would you really want to stick fibreglass on the main metal structures of your motor especially where your main crash and crumple zones are. I know it happens as I have come across this bodge in the past where fibre matting has been stuck over rusty chassis's, suspension and jacking points to passed tests.
    However this is just my two pence worth ;)
     
  15. charlysays

    charlysays Senior Member

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    I'm amazed people are still advocating cutting out surface corroded bodywork. This would turn most old mercs into a patchwork quilt for no real benefit. If the rust is underneath the car I needle scale it (or die grind if really inaccessible) and use bilt hamber hydrate 80. If I'm feeling generous then two coats of electrox primer, then dynax UB finished off with shutz (the shutz is cheap and just adds more stone protection). This has lasted for more than 5 years for me. If topped up yearly with dynax UC it would last indefinitely IMO, this stuff has strong corrosion inhibitors and insulated from the air.

    For outer panels where absolutely no recurrence of rust is acceptable remove the worst of the rust (and isolate it all around back to clear paint/zintec) with a flapper disc or a mini needle scaler. Then apply deox gel. If the craters are really deep it may take three applications. This will remove all of the oxides even from the bottom of deep craters leaving entirely clean steel. Then use electrox primer, two coats then bilt hamber highbild, then basecoat and lacquer. Use upol Bar coat if spraying 2k paints over single pack like electrox. This method has never failed and works out better than cutting out what is essentially sound steel. Any welded repair is more likely to rust than a single sheet of steel no matter how well you do the job or seal it from both sides due to the way the welding alters the molecular structure of the steel. I only weld if the rust has caused serious thinning/ pinholes or worse (in non structural areas I would just fill the pinholes after using electrox primer). Please try these products for yourself before cutting into sound panels!
     
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