New Oil Find

[davemercedes]

Good news of the day:

Hurricane makes 'largest undeveloped' oil find in UK waters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39406131

This says that the discovery is "huge" but "it is still a fifth of the size of the Forties field, which contained about five billion barrels - of which approximately two billion have been recovered." Phew... I didn't realise we still had 3 x billion barrels "in the bank".

- Speaking of which, whatever happened to all that oil money? (I remember TV programmes forecasting "great riches" and easy living for all of us when they first struck oil in the North Sea.)

Stand by for Nicola Sturgeon...

 

[coxyhog]

Norway seems to be doing ok from oil money.

 

[curious]

Norway seems to be doing ok from oil money.

Largest sovereign wealth fund in the world. (Ahead of the Arabs)

 

[AMGeed]

Didn't the governments in power at the time of the oil boom use the revenue to pay off our war debts to the US and balance the trade books a little?

Even more reason for the poison dwarf to push for another referendum. I hope May sticks to her guns and tells Sturgeon again and again "No". Brexit is far more important than the SNP and their wishes.
When the negotiations are finally over and the UK is free of the EU, then Sturgeon can be told, No, you had your referendum, the Scots decided , and that is final.

 

[LostKiwi]

Didn't the governments in power at the time of the oil boom use the revenue to pay off our war debts to the US and balance the trade books a little?

Even more reason for the poison dwarf to push for another referendum. I hope May sticks to her guns and tells Sturgeon again and again "No". Brexit is far more important than the SNP and their wishes.
When the negotiations are finally over and the UK is free of the EU, then Sturgeon can be told, No, you had your referendum, the Scots decided , and that is final.

I support what she's doing.

 

[AMGeed]

I support what she's doing.

Why? Scotland have been told that they cannot remain in the EU without the rest of the UK. Like the Greeks before them, they cannot meet the financial obligations the EU set out. That mistake won't be made again......... or will it?

I swear she is harping on about another referendum to suit her own political career. Like Salmond, she is finished once the vote is denied. A one trick pony.

 

[LostKiwi]

Why shouldn't Scotland have its own sovereignty with the ability to choose it's own foreign policy, agree it's own trade agreements and make its own laws?

 

[AMGeed]

Why shouldn't Scotland have its own sovereignty with the ability to choose it's own foreign policy, agree it's own trade agreements and make its own laws?

Because the Scots have already voted to stay in the Union where central government is in Westminster. You want to cherry pick the best bits for the Scots and leave the remaining costs for the rest of UK taxpayer?

 

[Craiglxviii]

Why shouldn't Scotland have its own sovereignty with the ability to choose it's own foreign policy, agree it's own trade agreements and make its own laws?

Because it joined with the English Crown when it couldn't afford to remain a sovereign state in its own right...
Because it already had the chance to have a say and it voted to stay within the U.K...
Because continuing to allow votes on a subject until the desired result comes up is not only wrong, but wholly undemocratic in every way...
Because the whole independence thing is wholly down to the SNP...
Because support for independence in the electorate has either stayed steady or is decreasing...
Because it's all being done to massage the ego of the Fishes...

 

[Craiglxviii]

Didn't the governments in power at the time of the oil boom use the revenue to pay off our war debts to the US and balance the trade books a little?

Even more reason for the poison dwarf to push for another referendum. I hope May sticks to her guns and tells Sturgeon again and again "No". Brexit is far more important than the SNP and their wishes.
When the negotiations are finally over and the UK is free of the EU, then Sturgeon can be told, No, you had your referendum, the Scots decided , and that is final.

The thing that Sturgeon just either doesn't understand, or want to admit, is that the UK Offshore Economic Area is defined as exactly that. For the UK. Should Scotland go independent, that area belonging to Scotland would need to be negotiated with London, and really how much do you expect them to give away? The line going around Whitehall in 2014 was, "not one penny"... Scotland will get home waters out to 12 miles as recognised internationally, and really that's it.

Some discussion on whether or not the Shetlands and Orkneys might decide to become tax havens and become like very cold wet versions of Dubai...

 

[Frontstep]

Susanne Boyle/Sturgeon thing going on to me.

Sturgeon is trying to rerun her failed referendum/di campaigns for personal gain.

She entered into the EU referendum and actively campaigned knowing full well the vote could go either way.

She knew at the time that she campaigned Scotland was part of the union.

How could the Scots trust her ?

"once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland" she told the Scottish before the independence vote.

not it depends, or the lifetime of a gerbil
or when I think I can have a go at power and the excuse of Brexit is too good an opportunity to miss.


Her vain attempt at grabbing power better befits an Elizabethan drama.

 

[LostKiwi]

Because the Scots have already voted to stay in the Union where central government is in Westminster. You want to cherry pick the best bits for the Scots and leave the remaining costs for the rest of UK taxpayer?

So Scotland can't stay in the EU if it leaves the UK. It also can't stay in the EU if it stays in the UK.
They clearly wanted to stay in the EU (EU referendum showed that). From their perspective it could be argued that some numbers of those who voted in the UK referendum voted to stay in the UK in order to stay in the EU. So in some ways the first vote (vote to stay in the UK in order to stay in the EU) may be seen as a betrayal.
Now I seem to recall one of the reasons people in the UK voted to leave the EU was to take back control. I see very little difference between the UK (with or without Scotland) wanting to take back control from Europe and Scotland wanting to take back control from Westminster.
If democracy is so great why not allow Scotland to have this second referendum to clarify the mess resulting from the first UK referendum and the EU referendum?
Is the UK really so scared of the democracy it purports to champion?

 

[LostKiwi]

The thing that Sturgeon just either doesn't understand, or want to admit, is that the UK Offshore Economic Area is defined as exactly that. For the UK. Should Scotland go independent, that area belonging to Scotland would need to be negotiated with London, and really how much do you expect them to give away? The line going around Whitehall in 2014 was, "not one penny"... Scotland will get home waters out to 12 miles as recognised internationally, and really that's it.

Some discussion on whether or not the Shetlands and Orkneys might decide to become tax havens and become like very cold wet versions of Dubai...

I think it would be very difficult for the remnants of the UK to hang onto those parts of the oil fields that are within 200 miles of Scotland coast that aren't within 200 miles of England's. The remainder would be open to negotiation but I suspect Scotland would have a strong claim to much of it.

 

[dry run]

Why shouldn't Scotland have its own sovereignty with the ability to choose it's own foreign policy, agree it's own trade agreements and make its own laws?

OK, so why not London, Yorkshire, Cornwall or any other region? Personally, I'd be happy for Scotland to "F Off" but I won't get a say in that!

 

[LostKiwi]

OK, so why not London, Yorkshire, Cornwall or any other region? Personally, I'd be happy for Scotland to "F Off" but I won't get a say in that!

They haven' had their own parliament in the past 1000 years. Scotland has. Scotland only joined the UK as a result of the Act of Union in 1706/7. You could argue that union occurred with the Treaty of Union when England and Scotland came under a common King (1603) but at that point there were still separate legislatures and that didn't change till some time later.
Wales likewise has a claim.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Because it joined with the English Crown when it couldn't afford to remain a sovereign state in its own right...
Because it already had the chance to have a say and it voted to stay within the U.K...
Because continuing to allow votes on a subject until the desired result comes up is not only wrong, but wholly undemocratic in every way...
Because the whole independence thing is wholly down to the SNP...
Because support for independence in the electorate has either stayed steady or is decreasing...
Because it's all being done to massage the ego of the Fishes...

A very good reason to allow another referendum, or does MAY know something we dont ......

 

[LostKiwi]

A very good reason to allow another referendum, or does MAY know something we dont ......

Exactly.
If the Scots have another referendum and elect to stay then there can be be no further argument.

 

[prwales]

Didn't the governments in power at the time of the oil boom use the revenue to pay off our war debts to the US and balance the trade books a little?

Even more reason for the poison dwarf to push for another referendum. I hope May sticks to her guns and tells Sturgeon again and again "No". Brexit is far more important than the SNP and their wishes.
When the negotiations are finally over and the UK is free of the EU, then Sturgeon can be told, No, you had your referendum, the Scots decided , and that is final.

Thatcher used the revenue to pay the dole money of the workers she sacked when she opted to de-industrialise the whole UK. That money and the income from selling off state assets cheaply to their Tory mates was squandered.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I think it would be very difficult for the remnants of the UK to hang onto those parts of the oil fields that are within 200 miles of Scotland coast that aren't within 200 miles of England's. The remainder would be open to negotiation but I suspect Scotland would have a strong claim to much of it.

Why would it be difficult? We lay claim to territory and waters 200 miles off the Argentine coast and that's only been disputed once- then Johnny Foreigner Got A Richly Deserved Slapping. The fields were developed with money from London; they're patrolled and protected with money from London; they belong to the UK (in this case, the remaining UK or rUK). Scotland would have a claim to what it could physically lay claim to.

What could it lay claim to, and how could it support that claim? The last time this was raised several think tanks made independent judgements that tallied very closely. Scotland could afford three OPVs as a navy. Not 3 on station, 3 total. That means one on station. So with one (small) ship, how could Scotland justify its claim? The answer is, it couldn't. So the reality is, it's claim would be "what London allows them to have". Now consider what the rUK maintains as a force, around 40x what our putative Scotland can afford, and remember this is the same country that went into a non shooting war to defend fishing rights- and we're talking about strategic energy reserves in our own economic area- and tell me they won't be ruthlessly pragmatic over it.

Besides which. We're a small island with a lot of people and great potential. The strength of the UK has always been greater as a sum than taken individually. Going into Europe alone, currencyless, Scotland becomes another Romania or Greece. As in, a nett drain.

 

[Craiglxviii]

A very good reason to allow another referendum, or does MAY know something we dont ......

I think here the problem is, another "no" vote will just lead to calls for another referendum. They had their shot, disliked the result, now want another. And another. That's wholly undemocratic and flies against what the SNP supposedly stands for.

As well as that, it distracts from the rather important business of actually extracting this country successfully from the EU. Does May know something we don't? Yes, very many things for sure. One of them will be the polling numbers and their time trends; I'm fairly sure that the referendum will be agreed to coincide with a downward inflection linked to the Brexit timetable.

Watch this space for renewed investment in Scotland, heavy industry I reckon, to match our Brexit timetable announcements.