New Oil Find

[prwales]

Not unlike I agree.
Though, we are a net contributor to the eu, so reasonable to see that we shall enjoy a net gain by leaving, of contributions at least as the rest is within the crystal ball.

Scotland didn't believe it could stand alone financially, imho, and Cameron had no reason to enter into a "we will allow you to have this" dialogue. TM has no reason to either. The unknown of the result of 'out of the UK' is greater.

Also historically as stand alone we have done ok, Scotland not so well. Of course we are now in a different age with different possibilities, positive and negative.

While 51.9% of the UK believe in the UK's stand alone(ish) feasibility, 55.3% of Scots didn't see their stand alone as attractive.
Neither result was / is conclusive though, hence the politicians and their crystal balls and try again attempts.

Scotland is self sufficient in the basics; food, and energy and it has plenty to export too whether it be timber, oil, whisky or beef. By my judgement they'd be far better as a stand alone state of 5m people than England with its close to 60m. The fact is that England needs Scotland rather more than it needs you

 

[Craiglxviii]

Scotland is self sufficient in the basics; food, and energy and it has plenty to export too whether it be timber, oil, whisky or beef. By my judgement they'd be far better as a stand alone state of 5m people than England with its close to 60m. The fact is that England needs Scotland rather more than it needs you

The entire island hasn't been self sufficient in food since the mid- late 19th century. I'd be really interested to see your data on that. Mine says (nett):

Farming: £700m
Aquaculture: £434m

That works out to £214 per head of population per annum. That includes subsidies. Without them, every farm averaged a nett £16k loss per annum.

Cut another way:

6.6m sheep.
1.8m cattle.
0.31m pigs.

Allowing for 1.3 animals per annum turnover and 25/ 250/ 150kg per animal of meat produce, that works out to 159kg per head of population per annum or 434g per day. On that score they are about self sufficient.

On timber, at today's prices the 15,000 km^2 could nett £5.4bn if it was all cultivated. £360k per km^2.

So that's £1100 per head they have...

 

[LostKiwi]

"Nicola Sturgeon told supporters at the 2015 manifesto launch that the SNP would always support independence. But she said this election was "not about independence"

On that basis she and her party were elected.

Not only that she went on to support the Union,

Using SNP votes at Westminster to ensure the promises made during the referendum are delivered
Demand that the proposals of the Smith Commission on more powers for Scotland are delivered quickly and in full

Oppose any effort to undermine devolution

Seek agreement that the Scottish Parliament should move to "full financial responsibility"

Prioritise early devolution of powers over employment policy, including the minimum wage, welfare, business taxes, national insurance and equality policy


The EU referendum which she took part in and was on the losing side was a NATIONAL UK one not regional.

She simply saw an opportunity to grab power and using weasel words tried to spin the EU referendum vote into an independence vote.

As I said she has no mandate.

Mandate: the authority to carry out a policy, regarded as given by the electorate to a party or candidate that wins an election.

She has mistimed her power grab.

Finally an answer not steeped in rhetoric or soundbites!

Taking your bit in bold....

The ultimate form of devolution is independence. Thats when everything is devolved to the country in question. To seek independence is not contrary to the manifesto as even though it says 'This is not about independence' it also goes on to say they will seek greater devolution. They have also stated quite clearly their views on the EU and Westminster and clearly believe (and stated):
"MAKING THE EU WORK BETTER FOR SCOTLAND
The European Union is far from perfect, however we
believe that it is overwhelmingly in Scotland’s interests
for us to remain a member, engaging with the
institutions as fully as we can, and to argue for reform
from within.
We will oppose UK withdrawal from the EU"
They also went further to seek to define the way they would seek any referendum would be run (given at the time the manifesto was written there was no confirmed referendum on the table).

It can therefore be argued that the manifestos pro EU stance is also a mandate for independence as that is the only way that Scotland can rejoin the EU. It cannot remain in the EU (we all know that) but as long as it is part of the UK it also can't rejoin unless Westminster rejoin. In light of the significant remain vote in Scotland coupled with their stated EU support that would form a mandate in my view.

So out of interest what would you propose as a way to decide if they have a mandate?
A snap election? Or may a referendum to see if they should have a referendum for independence?

In my view the mandate is there. Nothing in their manifesto precludes any attempt at another referendum to leave the Union.

Whether the EU referendum was regional or UK wide is irrelevant. The manifesto of the governing party of Scotland (a separate country and not a region) states it believes Scotland is better in the EU so it is quite within its mandate to seek to maintain or restore that position.

I'm sure you'll disagree with me (as usual).

 

[JBell]

The fact is that England needs Scotland rather more than it needs you

Think it is the other way round, binning Scotland would save us a fortune and we should ask for the £400m back for that ridiculous building

 

[LostKiwi]

Apart from them voting to leave the EU as well.

Frankly, if Scotland wants independence it can have it as far as I am concerned - but it can wait until after Brexit has happened.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Nothing to do with the EU. I was referring to a claim for independence.

 

[LostKiwi]

Think it is the other way round, binning Scotland would save us a fortune and we should ask for the £400m back for that ridiculous building

Just hope they don't charge 300 years rent for Faslane, Scapa and all the other military installations though!

 

[triumphstag]

The fact is that England needs Scotland rather more than it needs you

Shaggy ha ha ha ha ha ha

Nicola, is that you?

Shame none of the economists that looks into this agree with this ridiculous soundbite.

 

[prwales]

Think it is the other way round, binning Scotland would save us a fortune and we should ask for the £400m back for that ridiculous building

are you going to refund the oil revenues, thought not

 

[Craiglxviii]

Just hope they don't charge 300 years rent for Faslane, Scapa and all the other military installations though!

... the populations of which wouldn't have grown and developed as they did without those bases being placed there, you mean?

 

[triumphstag]

are you going to refund the oil revenues, thought not

We already have, through the Barnett formula.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[prwales]

The entire island hasn't been self sufficient in food since the mid- late 19th century. I'd be really interested to see your data on that. Mine says (nett):

Farming: £700m
Aquaculture: £434m

That works out to £214 per head of population per annum. That includes subsidies. Without them, every farm averaged a nett £16k loss per annum.

Cut another way:

6.6m sheep.
1.8m cattle.
0.31m pigs.

Allowing for 1.3 animals per annum turnover and 25/ 250/ 150kg per animal of meat produce, that works out to 159kg per head of population per annum or 434g per day. On that score they are about self sufficient.

On timber, at today's prices the 15,000 km^2 could nett £5.4bn if it was all cultivated. £360k per km^2.

So that's £1100 per head they have...

http://www.businessforscotland.com/...cotland-will-be-a-wealthy-independent-nation/
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0042/00422987.pdf
http://www.scotland.org/about-scotland/business-and-economy

 

[JBell]

are you going to refund the oil revenues, thought not

Not my point, anyone who lets a major project like that cost 10 times the amount it should is not capable of running a country.

Oil revenues benefitted the entire UK including your principality Mr Wales and Scotland gets considerably more back per capita than any other part (Barnett)

 

[prwales]

Not my point, anyone who lets a major project like that cost 10 times the amount it should is not capable of running a country.

Oil revenues benefitted the entire UK including your principality Mr Wales and Scotland gets considerably more back per capita than any other part

what is the cost of repairing the Palace of Malice, its already into the billions something the Scots, Welsh, Irish, and the English all get to pay for. And what is the Royal Palaces repair bill running at...how many royal palaces does this family need

 

[KennyN]

anyone who lets a major project like that cost 10 times the amount it should is not capable of running a country

And it is a £400,000,000 eye sore.

How the accountants got that so wrong is beyond me , i am sure the £360,000,000 overspend could have went to a better use especially when you see the state of some of the schools and how poorly equipped they are.

Kenny

 

[Craiglxviii]

http://www.businessforscotland.com/...cotland-will-be-a-wealthy-independent-nation/
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0042/00422987.pdf
http://www.scotland.org/about-scotland/business-and-economy

The first two of which are part of their independence case, not exactly unbiased sources eh..? So what are your numbers? Don't just post links. Make your argument.

 

[Craiglxviii]

what is the cost of repairing the Palace of Malice, its already into the billions something the Scots, Welsh, Irish, and the English all get to pay for. And what is the Royal Palaces repair bill running at...how many royal palaces does this family need

DON'T start this Shiite again.

 

[JBell]

And it is a £400,000,000 eye sore.

How the accountants got that so wrong is beyond me , i am sure the £360,000,000 overspend could have went to a better use especially when you see the state of some of the schools and how poorly equipped they are.

Kenny

Exactly!!!!

 

[JBell]

what is the cost of repairing the Palace of Malice, its already into the billions something the Scots, Welsh, Irish, and the English all get to pay for. And what is the Royal Palaces repair bill running at...how many royal palaces does this family need

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[prwales]

The first two of which are part of their independence case, not exactly unbiased sources eh..? So what are your numbers? Don't just post links. Make your argument.

I don't need to, your argument is a biased and inaccurate construct... as usual

 

[LostKiwi]

And it is a £400,000,000 eye sore.

How the accountants got that so wrong is beyond me , i am sure the £360,000,000 overspend could have went to a better use especially when you see the state of some of the schools and how poorly equipped they are.

Kenny

And the builders of it (and construction difficulties accounted for half the final overrun) were....
Bovis. Of Kent.