OM651 diesel engine

[star]

I have working on these engine for years in Mercedes and there has been various chain / tensinosrs failing . Recently I have had 212 651 engine camshaft sporket break into preices damaging the drive gear at the back . Engine has been rebuilt with genies Mercedes parts . Problem is engine back in car cranked over started ran for about and minute and now won't start . No fault codes timing rechecked .rail pressure goes from about 280 upward . But injectors don't open replaced injector rail tested all wiring but still no fuel plenty pressure at pipes when cracked . And also runs on the old go go juice but just won't open injectors .

Anyone every come across this . Confused as Ano the older engine shut injectors of if rail pressure too high at start up but does this engine do this as well . Also tensioners common for rattle at start up try first before replacing chain easy job

You may need to bleed the injectors/rail via a star machine.

 

[Davidfmercedes]

Yes that has already been don't there is plenty of rail pressure but the injectors are not opening and rail pressure is just rising . Concerned it's a control unit fault .

 

[Doggydoggen]

Hello, calling from Sweden..

An old post, but thought I would say my experience with this engine
my car is the smallest variant with 136 hp om651 and has so far gone 220,000 miles, nothing is done with the engine, ie the timing chain and the same injectors The Same water pump, etc etc

Although the E200 has a different type of injectors than the E220 and E250

a friend of mine has also a E200 CDI which has now passed 235,000 miles, and he changed the timing chain for about 1,000 miles ago, to be on the safe side

if one takes care of oil changes with quality oil, so it seems that the chains hold about 220 to 250,000 miles, maby longer?

I have also read that people were worried that the water pumps will fail because they are plastic, my pump is still original and works fine.

then the timing chain replacement, engine is not out, look at the link below.

So I do not think that these engines are bad, on the contrary ..
or have I been lucky? ..: D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyc9c8CrGak

 

[star]

That's the strange thing, I have done timing chains and water pumps on this engine as low as 80,000 miles. Some have been that loud on start up after an oil change that I had feared it would snap. And yet some do much larger miles and have no problems at all. I have wondered if the stop/start system increases wear on the chain.

 

[star]

What about plastic gears in the throttle Venturi/actuator that wear out?

 

[John Laidlaw]

Possibly.I must admit I do worry on this stop/start 'technology' can't be good for the car long term IMO

 

[Doggydoggen]

That's the strange thing, I have done timing chains and water pumps on this engine as low as 80,000 miles. Some have been that loud on start up after an oil change that I had feared it would snap. And yet some do much larger miles and have no problems at all. I have wondered if the stop/start system increases wear on the chain.

Here in my town is crawling with E200 and E220 which goes as Taxi
and I spoke to their workshop, the things that they had problems with the starters, alternators, injectors (on the 220,250), an O-ring that seals the coolant at the EGR valve had to be replaced on all cars, then another O-ring I do not remember whose it was placed in the engine.

they have changed timing chain on some cars when they were around 240,000 miles, and the chain broke down on one of the cars and a connecting rod went through the engine block, but only on 1 car, this happened to.

but they have been serviced and repaired 30-40 cars and they experience them as durable engines.
the climate is slightly different here in Sweden, it is never quite warm in the summer, for example, and the taxis do not have start / stop function
and Because of the cold winter They use 0w-30 oil Fully synthetic, if it can make a difference?

if the chain rattles when done changing the oil it should depend on the chain tensioner, a poor chain rattles all the time and will not be silent after the chain tensioner built up the oil pressure ?.

Maybe it's the chain tensioner should be replaced at certain predetermined intervals?might say every 40,000 miles?

when you have changed the timing chain have you taken out the engine or have you switched to a split chain like in the youtube clip?

As I read about the timing chain problems, you become worried, so I shall change the chain as quickly as possible, better to be on the safe side, my car has gone very far but sounds alright

my english maby sounds funny, but i hope you understand what im wrighting?

Doger

 

[Doggydoggen]

What about plastic gears in the throttle Venturi/actuator that wear out?

i think almost all modern cars have the same design with plastic gears
it more cost effective ofcourse
for example, i friend of mine has a 2007 BMW 535 and 2 weeks ago he needed to replace the acutator because the plastic gears were worn out, the bmw has 230,000 mils on it.
regarding mercedes, i have never heard that this is a problem on the om651?

if someone want something to do like DIY, send the gears to gearsmade.com and they can duplicade the gears in solid brass or steel..

http://gearsmade.com/

 

[Doggydoggen]

im going to change the cam chain and gears myself
gonna wind the new chain with old chain procedur

im gonna buy this setup, chain and gears

http://www.ebay.de/itm/MERCEDES-BEN...372345?hash=item3f582e59f9:g:sCQAAOSwf-VWXX7t

and this endless timing chain

http://www.ebay.de/itm/321374014730?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

then i need this tool

http://www.ebay.de/itm/201295355786?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

and this chain breaker/installer, im not sure if this tool will work on the OM651?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/161465578293?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

And maby i need this adapter for simplex chains?, im not sure this adapter will work on the above breaker/installer?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271789176728?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

and will follow this 2 youtube clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyc9c8CrGak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wkXALb4_dE

some thoughts?

 

[star]

i think almost all modern cars have the same design with plastic gears
it more cost effective ofcourse
for example, i friend of mine has a 2007 BMW 535 and 2 weeks ago he needed to replace the acutator because the plastic gears were worn out, the bmw has 230,000 mils on it.
regarding mercedes, i have never heard that this is a problem on the om651?

if someone want something to do like DIY, send the gears to gearsmade.com and they can duplicade the gears in solid brass or steel..

http://gearsmade.com/

Good idea if you have lots of time and don't need your car for a while.

Here in my town is crawling with E200 and E220 which goes as Taxi
and I spoke to their workshop, the things that they had problems with the starters, alternators, injectors (on the 220,250), an O-ring that seals the coolant at the EGR valve had to be replaced on all cars, then another O-ring I do not remember whose it was placed in the engine.

they have changed timing chain on some cars when they were around 240,000 miles, and the chain broke down on one of the cars and a connecting rod went through the engine block, but only on 1 car, this happened to.

but they have been serviced and repaired 30-40 cars and they experience them as durable engines.
the climate is slightly different here in Sweden, it is never quite warm in the summer, for example, and the taxis do not have start / stop function
and Because of the cold winter They use 0w-30 oil Fully synthetic, if it can make a difference?

if the chain rattles when done changing the oil it should depend on the chain tensioner, a poor chain rattles all the time and will not be silent after the chain tensioner built up the oil pressure ?.

Maybe it's the chain tensioner should be replaced at certain predetermined intervals?might say every 40,000 miles?

when you have changed the timing chain have you taken out the engine or have you switched to a split chain like in the youtube clip?

As I read about the timing chain problems, you become worried, so I shall change the chain as quickly as possible, better to be on the safe side, my car has gone very far but sounds alright

my english maby sounds funny, but i hope you understand what im wrighting?

Doger

I think of all the chains that have been replace early have had stop start on, we split the chain and feed it around.
There was a modified tensioner when these were first started to rattle but that's long past. just listen on start up of after an oil change, a small amount of rattle is acceptable, but if it makes you cringe, then get it replaced.

im going to change the cam chain and gears myself
gonna wind the new chain with old chain procedur

im gonna buy this setup, chain and gears

http://www.ebay.de/itm/MERCEDES-BEN...372345?hash=item3f582e59f9:g:sCQAAOSwf-VWXX7t

and this endless timing chain

http://www.ebay.de/itm/321374014730?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

then i need this tool

http://www.ebay.de/itm/201295355786?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

and this chain breaker/installer, im not sure if this tool will work on the OM651?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/161465578293?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

And maby i need this adapter for simplex chains?, im not sure this adapter will work on the above breaker/installer?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271789176728?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

and will follow this 2 youtube clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyc9c8CrGak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wkXALb4_dE

some thoughts?

That looks ok, but i wouldn't personally fit a chain from ebay. How much will you save afetr tooling up? unless you start a side line? Don't forget you need to Run the high pressure bleed on a star after the repair, as all the injectors have to be removed.

 

[turbopete]

with reference to the water pumps failing, ive seen one fail at under 40k miles.

 

[geraldrobins]

My water pump was replaced under warranty at about 36k miles. It hadn't failed but during a service a minor leak or bleed was noticed so the dealer replaced it.

 

[Doggydoggen]

High pressure bleed on a star after the repair, as all the injectors have to be removed...

Do i need to buy a STAR also, this is getting expensive..:grin:
is it possible to crank the engine and losen the high pressure lines like you do on older diesels or is it impossible witout STAR?

I work on cars for fun and like to have tools in my garage, you never know when you will need the tools again, help some friends or something..=)

If i buy the STAR were can i find a manual how to bleed the system?
or a manual in general for the STAR?

 

[WG M-B]

I don't know if I've been lucky but we look after many of these and never had a chain issue yet
Many over 200k

 

[turbopete]

I don't know if I've been lucky but we look after many of these and never had a chain issue yet
Many over 200k

i think it will be like many things. some will get issues, others wont. it may be that those doing bigger mileages are running at full normal temp for longer or are running on motorways more, so putting (marginally) less stress on chains than those that are used in more normal stop/start useage (like the 'average joe' going to work etc, rather than the 'sales rep' up and down the motorway)

 

[star]

Here's a medium rattle on start up.

http://youtu.be/WMfYEFcSiYs

 

[Doggydoggen]

Here's a medium rattle on start up.

http://youtu.be/WMfYEFcSiYs

O my good that was terrible!!, and you say medium?..

 

[turbopete]

i wouldnt be keen on using an engine that sounded like that!

 

[star]

We've heard a lot worse, this one had 110,000 miles on it.

 

[Uncle Benz]

Just to add another facet to this remarkable engine, it appears that the fibre lining material reinforcing both the coolant and fuel hoses is attractive to rats! I've now had three cars with "rat attacks", one rendered immobile when they destroyed the fuel hose that fits between the filter and the high pressure pump.

Ratnip!! You really couldn't make this stuff up!