Petrol vs Diesel E280?

[the zacster]

Hi all

I guess this is a pretty worn topic, but your advice/experience would be appreciated. I'm looking to buy an E-class estate, and am going for the new 280 V6 engine. Question is whether I go for the petrol or the CDi version. Some things to consider;
1) I'm a private buyer (so BIK is not an issue)
2) I'm planning to hold onto the car for a pretty long time (family workhorse)
3) Average mileage per annum is about 8/9k... which is a mix of motorway and suburban driving
4) I'm more concerned with overal cost of ownership/reliability than performance/speed (I figure both 280 engines will be more than powerful enough for me)... so I'm thinking of insurance, service-costs etc (do these Merc diesels require more frequent/costly service intervals) as well as just fuel economy

I guess a few years ago, diesel would have been the no-brainer. But with diesel costs higher than petrol, its a pretty close call. Any advice on the pros and cons of both in the bigger Merc engines wouod be really appreciated. Thanks!

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

I can't speak for the latest diesel V6 engines but the earlier generation of S6/S5 and S4 CDi's are excellent engines. I would imagine that now the EU4 regulations have been properly engineered into the latest diesel engines you won't have the issue with economy figures that some people had a couple of years ago.

My E320CDi averages approx 34 to the gallon with very similar usage to yours. If anything the diesel is now cheaper to maintain, the service intervals are the same as petrol but you don't have the complication of expensive spark plug replacement and leads.

I've done nearly 10K in this car now and find the engine as reponsive as a petrol and more powerful. Cruising on the motorway at 70ish gives 42 to the gallon, which for the size and performance of the car I find amazing.

To conclude heres one diesel convert who won't be going back to petrol.

 

[Bolide]

Diesel ve petrol

Cruising on the motorway at 70ish gives 42 to the gallon, which for the size and performance of the car I find amazing

Find me a petrol car that would do that and I'd think of switching back

Diesel-engined cars are now so punchy, economical & refined that the old "noisy, smelly diesel" arguments don't hold true at all. Combine that with markedly better residuals and it's a no-brainer

It doesn't matter how long you own a diesel car - it will always return more than the equivalent petrol car when you sell it

Either way you look at it I can't see a downside to the diesel

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[jberks]

It is true that when you do the maths, when you are only doing 8-9k per year, the fuel cost difference may appear pretty irrelevant, but rough calculations still show the difference at £240 per year or to put it another way 4 fill ups per year that you don't have to do or pay for. (6-8 weeks motoring for free with no inconvenient visits to the petrol station).

Both cost around the same new, but in a few years time where you come to trade it back in, however long away that may seem now, the difference will be a gulf.
If fuel prices continue to rise, you may even have real trouble shifting a 2.8 petrol v6 motor in a few years time.

I've just switched from a beautifully sweet petrol v6 to a 270 diesel, its not as refined as the old one but still pretty smooth (most passengers are surprised when I say its a diesel and it's as rough as a canine's behind when compared to the new 280 you're considering, I'm told) There's plenty of go and looking down at the computer on the way in this morning I still get a buzz when I see 41mpg as against my petrol's 31. When I come to move it on in a few years time, they'll be queuing up for it. Last time I looked, the dealer was still trying to shift my old 240!

Unless petrol drops to 50p per litre, I can't see myself ever going back.

I'll float one other thought. Why buy new? Hondas etc you need to buy new as they change every week and look old within a couple of years. But Mercs don't change that often and wear a lot better. Whilst better than they used to be, you still need to spend a good few thousand speccing up a new merc to the appropriate standard. Buying a 6 month old one allows you to get all those extras free.
As an excercise, I priced up my car as a new one. Sure, base price was 32k but with the extras (leather, phone, memory, wheels, avantgarde etc), the total list price was closer to 41k, and it doesn't even have sat nav!. At an unmarked 11 months old, (ex demo) it cost me 28k so to put it another way, even with good depreciation I would have lost the best part (given trade in prices) of £16,000 when I picked up the keys. If warranty is a concern, thats another £600. Each to their own but I considered a new one, looked at the figures and decided that it wasn't worth that kind of money just so I could be the first name on the log book. Remember, when you've had it 6 months, it IS a used car!
Just a thought, and good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Stulc]

If fuel prices continue to rise, you may even have real trouble shifting a 2.8 petrol v6 motor in a few years time........................Unless petrol drops to 50p per litre, I can't see myself ever going back.

What do you mean IF they continue to rise!....my mate has a 03 528 and been trying to sell it for the last 2 month's and cant....I think he's gona trade it in now.


There's no chance of that in rip off brittain....fact!

 

[Rory]

But Mercs don't change that often and wear a lot better.

I don't know how much it's going to change, but aren't they just about to do some level of facelift to the E Class? I'd read that as a reason for the deals that are available on the current model.

 

[the zacster]

Thanks all - responses are much appreciated. A few things...

1) Completely agree with you all that diesel engines are great performers these days, with great power and superior torque where it really counts (lower revs, overtaking etc). I'm definitely more in favour of the oil-burner...

2) The fact that the diesel variant of the 280 (or any other model, for that maytter) is c.£1000 more expensive than the petrol doesn't bother me either, as I plan on keeping the car for many years (5+), and so I should recoup the difference over time.

3) I spent some time last night trawling the web and noted that many sites suggested that, on average, diesel cars required more regular servicing (i.e. most cost!)... and I wondered whether this was the case with the newer Mercs (i.e. 211s)?

4) JBerks - thanks for your note (in fact you've answered more than a few of my posts in the past, thanks!). You're absolutely right - I'd never buy brand new from a dealer. (Having been told by MBDirect that they'd offer me just under £13k for my mint fully-loaded BMW330Ci which cost me £33k exactly 3 years ago, I'm not making that mistake again!). I'll either wait for a 280 to come up newsed (i.e. with 5-10k on the clock - e.g. through MBDirect) or get it through drivethedeal.com, which offers a saving of £8k on the new price of a loaded car.

5) Rory - you're right: the E-series is due a facelift (to be officially announced at the Geneva show in a few weeks time) this summer. From what I've seen on various sites, the changes are largely cosmetic and (IMHO) hardly noticable. The only possible change of any significance may be the ditching of the much/over-maligned SB braking system (i.e. reverting to the old hyraulic system)... although I'm not sure that this change will be made until the next model comes out in late 2008 or (more realistically) 2009. So I'm waiting to see what happens with the summer '06 facelift and will then decide whether to bother waiting for the facelisted variant (and get it through drivethedeal) or (more likely) wait for a decent 280 to come available through MBDirect

 

[jberks]

I too can't see them changing the look too much. They did with the old E but then it wasn't the prettiest motor in the car park. The current W211 is (IMO). I suspect it will be a new front spoiler and some new wheels. Plus possibly a few extras in as standard, but we'll see.I can't see me rushing out to change any time soon though. I still think mine is georgeous.

Its interesting about the SBC. I recently say a review for, I think the new 3 series. The braking system they described sounded remarkably like the SBC.

 

[Rory]

You're absolutely right - I'd never buy brand new from a dealer. (Having been told by MBDirect that they'd offer me just under £13k for my mint fully-loaded BMW330Ci which cost me £33k exactly 3 years ago, I'm not making that mistake again!). I'll either wait for a 280 to come up newsed (i.e. with 5-10k on the clock - e.g. through MBDirect) or get it through drivethedeal.com, which offers a saving of £8k on the new price of a loaded car.

Bear in mind that MB Direct are usually a fair bit cheaper than the dealer - and don't take much notice of the screen prices - I paid £23500 for a car with £26999 on the screen, and I'm not sure I got the best possible deal.

I gather there's a hefty bonus available to the dealers if you switch from another brand to MB - I guess otherwise an MB dealer wouldn't be very interested in taking a BMW as it's likely pretty difficult for him to sell it for a good price.

Edited: Sorry, I got that the wrong way around - it's BMW who are paying a bonus if you P/X a Merc. Apparently MB's response is very good contract hire (and maybe PCP?) deals, which they can offer without it looking like they're cutting their prices.

 

[the zacster]

Intersting comment about the discount you got (from MBDirect or a dealer?), Rory. £3,500 off is a good deal. I think MBDirect is a good way to go... the salesman nearly biy my hand off when I visited MBD just before Xmas. He's got a nice car listed at £33,999 at the moment - I'll be interested to see how he'd react to a £30k cash offer

 

[Rory]

Intersting comment about the discount you got (from MBDirect or a dealer?), Rory. £3,500 off is a good deal. I think MBDirect is a good way to go... the salesman nearly biy my hand off when I visited MBD just before Xmas. He's got a nice car listed at £33,999 at the moment - I'll be interested to see how he'd react to a £30k cash offer

I bought mine at MB Direct, Birmingham. The salesman I dealt was *very* keen to do a deal, which was a very refreshing change from the 'normal' MB dealers.

However, get everything sorted up front. I haven't had any significant problems - the car came without a data sticker that should be in the back of the service book for example, and I never got the vehicle preparation checklist - but MB Direct are totally useless once you've bought the car. They pushed quite hard to deliver the car to me, but I refused. It's obvious why - they'd just like to dump the car and run.
Their attitude is a bit like a car supermarket - they just want to sell the cars and that's it. I complained to MB Direct head office and they acknowledged the complaint (which was more about the lack of response than the problems themselves), but they never responded!

However, like a good deal from a car supermarket, I am very happy with the car and pretty pleased with the price I got.


You could do with finding out the auction price of the car you're interested in - I presume they move their unsold cars there and they can go through at surprisingly high prices, which MB Direct will be well aware of. Also, get them to guarantee that the car isn't a returned 'lemon'.

 

[the zacster]

Thats good advice - thanks. How do I find the auction price?

 

[jberks]

Given they are taking the supermarket model, I guess they may have more room to menouver in cost terms. However, I was looking at the direct web site a few days ago. They had a car, same age and model as mine, similar mileage but poverty spec (so £6,500 cheaper) and they were £1500 above the asking price I started at with the dealer 4 months ago. Admittedly, after a fair bit of haggling I only got £1k off the screen price but MB direct wouldn't be the first dealer to load the screen prices in order to give the illusion of a good discount/trade in.

I agree the dealers tend to be a bit laid back, but once you've shown a firm interest they still don't want you leaving and at the end of the day, they pay the same for the cars that direct do, so given a "you or MB direct" ultimatum you should be able to get the same deal from the dealers and at least you have the dealer's after sales service (such as it is).