Phillips Ultinon LED Headlight Lamps

[turbopete]

The issue is that by definition an H7 must be a halogen light source. It cannot be anything but (although I'm working on trying to change this...) and so anything sold as H7 that isn't halogen cannot be e-marked and is thus contravening both the car's homologation and construction & build regs, so is therefore illegal.

Bit like arguing varying shades of breaking the law...

fair point BUT as people already fit these 'illegal' HID conversions, I'm thinking surely the LEDs would be preferable to the HIDs? and theres already LEDs all over the front of most cars now anyhow in the form of DRLs and indicators, in the case of Audi (and a few others I'm starting to see)
I get that there will be valid reasons why these cant be type approved (or whatever its called) but are they preferable to the HID conversions? and in actual fact, has anyone even TRIED to get any of these approved for use? its more curiosity in me than anything!)

 

[Craiglxviii]

fair point BUT as people already fit these 'illegal' HID conversions, I'm thinking surely the LEDs would be preferable to the HIDs? and theres already LEDs all over the front of most cars now anyhow in the form of DRLs and indicators, in the case of Audi (and a few others I'm starting to see)
I get that there will be valid reasons why these cant be type approved (or whatever its called) but are they preferable to the HID conversions? and in actual fact, has anyone even TRIED to get any of these approved for use? its more curiosity in me than anything!)

DRLs and indicators are restricted by regulation to no more than 600lm and (I forget the beam angle) for DRL, and no more than 5W optical and obviously yellow/ amber for the turn indicators. That is to say that regardless of the lighting source they cannot dazzle, as the lighting regulations do not differ between types of lighting source for these (or indeed any other) applications- merely the brightness of those sources.

So, a lamp purporting to be H7, of the correct size & shape (regardless of whether or not it's LED, RED, WED or plutonium powered) that is not a tungsten filament halogen envelope lamp CANNOT be an H7 lamp. It cannot exactly replicate the lighting output of an H7 lamp, QED.

Now, what that does not mean is that an OEM could come up with a replaceable LED "bulb" form factor lamp that is sold specifically under their own part number. They can do that and have that homologated with the car- but that lamp will never be a form factor replacement for any other filament lamp as it's not a filament lamp.

That's the long and short of it- they cannot be e-marked as they are not what they claim to be. Whether or not they are better than something else equally as illegal (in the retrofitting sense) is unimportant to both the licensing authorities and the OEMs.

 

[LostKiwi]

In reality an HiD is (from a technical perspective of looking at the luminous source) better than an LED on the basis the light source is a point source that can be in the focal point of the reflector (which an LED can never be for reasons stated previously).
The issue with HiD is that it is a LOT brighter than filaments and as any imperfections in the focus of the lens or reflector will create a lot more dazzle and glare. Added to this the colour temperature of HiDs is more towards the blue end of the spectrum which only serves to aggravate the issue as blue wavelengths are those that the eye detects as glare.

 

[M80]

Added to this the colour temperature of HiDs is more towards the blue end of the spectrum which only serves to aggravate the issue as blue wavelengths are those that the eye detects as glare.

My thoughts when I saw the 6500K colour temperature.

 

[Frosty149]

Aahhh,
This then would explain why some occasional cars in a stream of oncoming vehicles (particularly in the distance) have blue tinged headlamps?

 

[LostKiwi]

Aahhh,
This then would explain why some occasional cars in a stream of oncoming vehicles (particularly in the distance) have blue tinged headlamps?

That's more usually a diffraction effect from the lens/beam mask design - especially projector style lights.

 

[Craiglxviii]

In reality an HiD is (from a technical perspective of looking at the luminous source) better than an LED on the basis the light source is a point source that can be in the focal point of the reflector (which an LED can never be for reasons stated previously).
The issue with HiD is that it is a LOT brighter than filaments and as any imperfections in the focus of the lens or reflector will create a lot more dazzle and glare. Added to this the colour temperature of HiDs is more towards the blue end of the spectrum which only serves to aggravate the issue as blue wavelengths are those that the eye detects as glare.

Not just that, due to the form factor of an HID lamp the centroid of emission is moved in X axis forwards from where a halogen lamp would sit in its reflector. Also, reflector ain't a projector, it lacks a collimating lens so one tends to find a much less controlled beam pattern.

Totally correct in colour temp, most HID are at the 6000-6500K end of the range so peak intensity is perceived to be greater. Not aided in that the aftermarket scene is dominated by people who wish a colour tinge to be added, thus pinks, blues and greens are available with blue being far and away the most popular.

 

[C350Carl]

OEM HID are 4000-5000k and definitely not 6000k+.

I’ve had factory HID in my last 4 cars and all had standard Osram Xenarc D1S which are 4100k

Any standard HID lamp you buy will be around the 4200 mark and not 6000k.

The Philips X-Treme Vision D1S I put in my S212 are 4800k +/- 600k

The only decent HID I’ve seen above 5000k are the Osram Cool Blue Intense which are up to 6000k.

It’s only the retrofit kits and eGay or M-Tech style lamps that go 6000k+

You lose light after 5000k anyway so there’s no point fitting anything higher.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Sorry, I meant aftermarket boy racer stylee HID.

As colour temperature increases, illumination decreases but perceived brightness increases. We used to make a 10,000K lamp in my last job, illumination was shoite- you wouldn't use it as a torch- but f me it was bright, would put a visible beam of light through 35m of seawater. .