Restoring an old 180db Mercedes Benz (Ponton) from 1960. A barn find ?

[anyweb]

ok i've taken some photos of the dead high pressure diesel pump so at least I know what I'm dealing with now, Bosch have replied and i'm waiting to see if they can fix it, i'll post an update as soon as i know,

I also googled the part number and found some hits however my part is

Bosch: PES4A50B410RS144

Regler: EP/MZ60A 93d

and I found one online that is reconditioned but that is

Bosch: PES4A50B410RS144

Regler: EP/MZ60A 94d

do any of you know what the difference between 93d and 94d is exactly ?

 

[yorkshire1]

just doing a bit of googling it looks like that pump is a bit like the minimec pumps in that they arent lubricated from the engine oil but need external lubrication (the pics i found on google show an oil filler for the pump )

I would hazard a guess that in your pump the rack mechanism has seized in the shut off position. the pump should have a rectangular plate on the side held on with 2 studs take the 2 studs out and you should be able to use a screwdriver to lever the stuck mechanism backwards and forwards until free, spray if with whatever to help.the cap on the end of the pump should also screw off so you can lightly punch the mechanism from the end aswell if that helps

make sure it slides well though before trying to start otherwise it could overrev,just have a cloth handy to block air intake as a precaution

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0hnXd_v4ddk/maxresdefault.jpg

from the image its that rod/bar that you need to free off working it back and forth

 

[anyweb]

thanks for the info, but as the car has sat still for 29 years since the failure, i'm more suspecting that something broke when it was in use, I've found a replacement on ebay (see below) but it's not cheap... i'll think about it this evening.....and ask my car mechanic neighbor for advice,

if I do buy the refurbished one, and remove this one, i might just be able to fix the original and sell it, we'll see... my big worry is if i replace this that there's something else waiting for me to be fixed,

oh well, i'll keep at it....

 

[yorkshire1]

I think at £800 quid myself Id probably take yours off and get a reputable diesel injection specialist to have a look at yours and quote for the repair if its not U/S, this is the pic I found there must have been variations

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/151428578881

In the mean time Id check the rack movement Ive linked below a page scroll half way down good pic of typical rack mechanism

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/articles/diesel1.htm

Dont want to tell you how to suck eggs,I used to run Unimogs and MB tracs but these old inline pumps will not pump fuel for love nor money with the slightest bit of air in .when you crank the engine does fuel squirt out of both the bleed screws in turn,and once air free tighten,keep cranking and crack an injector union at injector end. If no luck at least taking the plate off the side will give you a rough idea of the condition of the internals, ie corroded with condensation etc

 

[anyweb]

I have already contacted Bosch here in Sweden and they pointed me at a diesel expert who in his own words 'has never worked with such old pumps before and there may not be parts available, and it will probably cost MORE than 1000 euro to fix with no guarantees'

which is exactly why i'm considering buying the refurbished one....I have no idea how to fix these things

as regards "when you crank the engine does fuel squirt out of both the bleed screws in turn,and once air free tighten,keep cranking and crack an injector union at injector end"

where are these bleed screws exactly ?

 

[om613]

They mean the injector pipe unions.

 

[yorkshire1]

I have already contacted Bosch here in Sweden and they pointed me at a diesel expert who in his own words 'has never worked with such old pumps before and there may not be parts available, and it will probably cost MORE than 1000 euro to fix with no guarantees'

which is exactly why i'm considering buying the refurbished one....I have no idea how to fix these things

as regards "when you crank the engine does fuel squirt out of both the bleed screws in turn,and once air free tighten,keep cranking and crack an injector union at injector end"

where are these bleed screws exactly ?

I cant see your pump because of the closeups but if you look at the pic of the ebay recon pump above the rectangular plate each side there are the slot head screws these are the bleed screws if you open them about3/4 of a turn and use the hand primer air/fuel will come out (as theyve got slots cut into the threads).bleed one then the other til air free fuel flows and tighten them back up, and try to crank and as said previously open union on one injector whilst cranking until hopefully it fires, with it having been stood so long and if it is going to fire up you may have to repeat the bleed process a time or two to eliminate all air. these old inline pumps are not self bleeding at all with any air in you can crank all day long and they wont fire so good luck

Sniff of easy start helps the battery/bleed process aswell

As regards diesel pump specialists theres none better than Dieselmeken based in Sweden !! highly regarded by the mercedes superturbodiesel chaps theres nothing he doesnt know or cant do with these merc pumps give him a call if stuck he speaks english

http://www.dieselmeken.se/

 

[BeeJay]

As someone who is mechanically incompetent, I would take my hat off to you (if I wore a hat).

I am unable to contribute to the discussion, but I have enjoyed sitting back and following the chat between yourself and other members of the forum. This is when this forum really shows what it is all about.

I did look on eBay and Amazon, and there seems to be plenty of literature available, such as Owner's Handbooks etc. I found this Mercedes W120 180 db Owners Manual Handbook. Not sure if it is of use, or of interest to you.
.
.

 

[anyweb]

As regards diesel pump specialists theres none better than Dieselmeken based in Sweden !! highly regarded by the mercedes superturbodiesel chaps theres nothing he doesnt know or cant do with these merc pumps give him a call if stuck he speaks english

http://www.dieselmeken.se/

thanks for this ! I appreciate the info !!

 

[brianbrian]

Interesting, thank you.

 

[rifiki]

i found a local place here in sweden that does that parts, niemoller also does the bit i broke on the piston....

Try mbclassics.de and German ebay. Got many parts for my Poton from there.

 

[anyweb]

update: so today I ordered the refurbished Pump from ebay in Germany, let's hope that it get's my old car running again, I mean it

It was expensive...1000 euros but after careful research and discussion I decided it was the best bet going forward, i'll post more when time comes to swap out the old and put in the new....

this guy had two of them, one sold, and just this one left, which was certified by Bosch in January,

after I tried talking to some companies here in Sweden, they quoted more than 1000 euros to repair my pump.

 

[anyweb]

cool ! I got the pump !! and I made a video of the unboxing which you can see here -

I will for sure make a video when it comes time to pull out the old pump and replace it with this one, I'm so anxious to get the car started but this makes me feel like the dream is becoming closer...

 

[anyweb]

so the new pump came with three sheets of paper in a white envelope, one of which was the info (in German) about the refurbishment from Bosch (parts replaced and cost etc), and it explains that the warranty will be invalidated if there's any dirt found in the pump (from the tank), so after discussing this with my neighbor last night, and seeing as the car has stood still for 30 years, the plan is to remove the diesel in the tank, then remove the tank itself and verify that it's clean as a whistle inside,before putting the new pump in place

 

[television]

You are doing very well, soon be the summer.

 

[anyweb]

thanks Malcolm, good to see you posting

 

[television]

thanks Malcolm, good to see you posting

Nicer to see what you are up to these days.

 

[anyweb]

so before I remove the fuel tank i'm sure some of you out there have some good advice on products to clean/seal the tank, I've looked at a few videos on youtube and the general list of things to do seems to be

1. drain the tank
2. remove the tank
3. using nuts and bolts and some water remove the rust by rolling back and forth, repeat until water is clean
4. use hydrochloric acid to remove rust
5. use baking soda and water to neutralize the acid
6. rinse well and seal with something
7. paint the outside of the tank with zinc based paint

have I got the above right ? do any of you recommend any kit to use ? thanks in advance for your advice

 

[Ken_R]

5a. Take it somewhere to be pressure tested for any pinholes.

 

[Ken_R]

Right. Sensible head on. You are concerned about any crud getting into the pump and invalidating the guarantee. I'm presuming there is a filter prior to the pump. Change/clean the filter. Before removing the tank, blast any crud in the fuel line(s) back into the tank. An air line would be best but, even a 'lash up' with a foot pump is better than nothing. Aldi/Lidl sometimes have an offer of a portable electric compressor for circa £50.

Don't assume corrosion. Get in there and have a good look. A basic Endoscope is about £50. Failing that, just a small torch and a Dental mirror. I'd suggest the best method of assessing the condition of a tank is to let it dry out, and then shake it whilst upside down, and see what falls out.

Yours is a Diesel. Diesel is an oil. It therefore provides a lubricant that protects the inner surfaces of the tank (unlike Petrol, which removes any protective coating that is in a deteriorating condition.)

If it does need an element of corrosion removal, then Pea Gravel is surely preferable to nuts and bolts.