Since when did Anti-Freeze & Coolant become so complicated ??

[wrightkarl]

When I were a lad....it was blue and as think as your grannies home made wine and either ethylene glycol OR propylene glycol !! Now we've got Green, Red, Blue, Yellow (ish) and now I understand colourless.
I get the idea of inhibitors and aluminium blocks etc,etc but it all seems a bit blasted complicated now.
I went to get some for my R129 500 and was met with god knows how many alternatives and more annoyingly different companies telling me I needed...Blue....Red...Green.... come on !! lol

As long as its not watered down Meths then realistically how much difference is there between them all ??

 

[Wighty]

When I were a lad....it was blue and as think as your grannies home made wine and either ethylene glycol OR propylene glycol !! Now we've got Green, Red, Blue, Yellow (ish) and now I understand colourless.
I get the idea of inhibitors and aluminium blocks etc,etc but it all seems a bit blasted complicated now.
I went to get some for my R129 500 and was met with god knows how many alternatives and more annoyingly different companies telling me I needed...Blue....Red...Green.... come on !! lol

As long as its not watered down Meths then realistically how much difference is there between them all ??

Well a lot of MB stuff is 15 year lifespan , so I would think twice about adding any old stuff , if you don't need much why don't you add a splash of deionised water . If you need more , won't MB tell you which stuff is in there already .

 

[LostKiwi]

The main issues are around OAT vs non OAT and Silicates vs no silicates.
Colour actually means nothing - its just a dye.
So... OAT (Organic Acid Technology) is a long life fluid whereas Glycol is short life. There are also Hybrid OAT (which is what MB uses).
Silicates were present in early coolants but are less so now. If you use non silicate OAT coolant in an old car the aluminium castings for the waterpump, thermostat housings etc can start to develop tiny leaks. These are visible as tiny droplets forming on the outside of the castings. I had this issue on my old Defender when I (incorrectly) used an no-silicate coolant. You could clearly see the tiny droplets forming on the outside of the thermostat housing.

Good article here about OAT/Non OAT.

The correct coolant for many MBs (including your 129) is G48.

Edit to add:
Also don't mix them. If you mix them together you can on occasion get the two to react and form a gel which is clearly not good for cooling!

 

[Rappey69]

I needed antifreeze for my old morris diesel in my boat. Went to halfrauds and useless was an understatement..
"If your cars not in the book then we cant look it up"
Their prices seemed very steep too so went to the yacht chandlers.. A 3rd of the price for antifreeze, which ,according to the label could be put in anything, even your drinking water to stop it freezing ! It did taste kinda nice ...
Couldn't say what sort it was, but was a watery orange and made by a marine brand...

 

[stwat]

Just buy it from mercedes, it's not just expensive.

 

[wrightkarl]

My point being why make something so straight forward so complex now. Are there so many differing compounds of alloy in use that we need so many antifreeze types ? Even engine oil isn't this complex and that's definitely important ! lol (Just a teae, don't bite!!)

Hey Ho..... Just thinking out loud again...The nurse keeps telling me to be quiet

 

[JBell]

My point being why make something so straight forward so complex now.

Because they can

 

[DREAMER NO2]

G48 was used in my M103 engine and have used it for 3 years now . This year its on the list for changing . Used it after i changed the coolant pump for a new one three years ago . Picked upa coolant fill funnel to do it with from china .

 

[wrightkarl]

Because they can

Oh yes, silly me !!

 

[Wighty]

G48 was used in my M103 engine and have used it for 3 years now . This year its on the list for changing . Used it after i changed the coolant pump for a new one three years ago . Picked upa coolant fill funnel to do it with from china .

Must have cost a fair bit to pick up from China buddy , cheaper to use Halfords

 

[LostKiwi]

Are there so many differing compounds of alloy in use that we need so many antifreeze types ?

The short answer is yes.
We have copper, various grades of aluminium, brass, steels of various flavours (including cast iron) and some plastics. Then we have rubber, silicon, paper etc for pipes and gaskets.
The properties of each material needs to be taken into account.

Now we add in toxicity - Glycol whilst being a great antifreeze and inhibitor is incredibly toxic (its a chemical thats been used to great effect in murders in the past) so for environmental reasons its not suitable in the modern world.
Something had to replace it so OAT came about. Silicates were used as corrosion inhibitors until it was determined there were more effective inhibitors (which is where long life coolant comes from) so that added another variable and as we now know the non silicate stuff doesn't work well in older cars as it eats the silicon in gaskets and can leach through castings.

MB fortunately are pretty easy - G48 for almost everything!

 

[DREAMER NO2]

Wighty no it was free . The funnel came in 3 weeks ..I found out there was a clip missing from the top that holds the return tube. And also after i gave it a try on my coolant tank filler neck ,and the adaptor was to strong to clip on .Anyway i told them through Amazon that parts missing .Message back from china to say ,wait for it --send a picture of the part thats missing ,i ask you how on earth could i do that.
Well after i sent emails back and forth .They said would i be happy with a refund, and i could keep the funnel .So thats the story. The adaptor spring was removed i cut off a part of the spring so it made it easy to get it on to the neck of the overflow tank , and in the same instance to make a good seal with in the cap. And it will i hope , stop the overflow of coolant as it expands .And when the system is full you just turn off the tap on the base , then lift off the funnel .

 

[Wighty]

Wighty no it was free . The funnel came in 3 weeks ..I found out there was a clip missing from the top that holds the return tube. And also after i gave it a try on my coolant tank filler neck ,and the adaptor was to strong to clip on .Anyway i told them through Amazon that parts missing .Message back from china to say ,wait for it --send a picture of the part thats missing ,i ask you how on earth could i do that.
Well after i sent emails back and forth .They said would i be happy with a refund, and i could keep the funnel .So thats the story. The adaptor spring was removed i cut off a part of the spring so it made it easy to get it on to the neck of the overflow tank , and in the same instance to make a good seal with in the cap. And it will i hope , stop the overflow of coolant as it expands .And when the system is full you just turn off the tap on the base , then View attachment 42837 View attachment 42837 View attachment 42837 View attachment 42837 View attachment 42837 lift off the funnel .

That looks like a good bit of kit . ( sorry I was joking before when you said you "picked it up" from China , my bad )

 

[DREAMER NO2]

No problem . I have yet to try it out . But watching on youtube these funnels cut the time down .And last time i did mine the coolant kept overflowing from the expansion bottle .Hope this will now stop this happening

 

[Brizzle]

Also don't mix them. If you mix them together you can on occasion get the two to react and form a gel which is clearly not good for cooling!

I can definately second this. I made the mistake of letting my local garage do a service on a Discovery II and they managed to mix the old OAT with a Glycol coolant. 1000 miles later the car is overheating badly and the expansion tank (and everywhere else) is full of a dark grey sludge. The radiator top hose is about 2 1/4" in diameter and I couldn't get my little fibger in there!

The local indie, who normally would have done the service, took another 2 weeks to get it clear again and the garage ownder was a trifle miffed when he got a bill for almost £1500. He tried to plead ignorance but caved in when I threatened him with trading standards, the small claims court and a piece in the local press.

I eventually sold the car because the problem kept coming back and although I was able to sort it myself by keeping a very close eye on the expansion tank it just got too much of a pain. Loved that car

 

[Jim2]

Attached is a pic of liquid in the expansion tank of my 2010 w212 E class. Judging by the colour, can anyone tell me what kind of anti-freeze I should be using? Or will any Mercedes approved 325.0 coolant do?
Thanks,
Jim2

 

[Jim2]

Wighty no it was free . The funnel came in 3 weeks ..I found out there was a clip missing from the top that holds the return tube. And also after i gave it a try on my coolant tank filler neck ,and the adaptor was to strong to clip on .Anyway i told them through Amazon that parts missing .Message back from china to say ,wait for it --send a picture of the part thats missing ,i ask you how on earth could i do that.
Well after i sent emails back and forth .They said would i be happy with a refund, and i could keep the funnel .So thats the story. The adaptor spring was removed i cut off a part of the spring so it made it easy to get it on to the neck of the overflow tank , and in the same instance to make a good seal with in the cap. And it will i hope , stop the overflow of coolant as it expands .And when the system is full you just turn off the tap on the base , then View attachment 42837 View attachment 42837 View attachment 42837 View attachment 42837 View attachment 42837 lift off the funnel .

This funnel, is it for use only when changing the antifreeze completely? And did it have a particular name?
Thanks,
Jim2

 

[Botus]

would be nice to get a feel for when the world swapped over


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

seems to suggest around 2006.... a leading brand called dex-cool was used in some GM cars, according to this GM went bust, became MLC (with the L standing for liquidation) then they bought back the good bits and became New GM, conveniently they got out of a class action law suit with gaskets rotting because one of the anti-corrosion components presented as sodium or Potassium 2-ethylhexanoate and ethylhexanoic acid is incompatible with nylon 6,6 and silicone rubber, and is a known plasticizer.

Elsewhere is says HOAT coolants typically mix an OAT with a traditional inhibitor, such as silicates or phosphates.




Brilliant does this suggest one of these sites is mistaken ?

this bit says G48 is silicates based ethylene glycol - which I took from above and on wiki to mean its the OLD stuff

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-131741-comma-xstream-g48-antifreeze-coolant-concentrated.aspx

whereas theses guys suggest G48 is the new stuff ??? yet works for pre 2000 Vauxhalls ???
Glysantin® G48 is coloured bluish green and is a premium-grade coolant that employs hybrid technology. It contains a mixture of inorganic and organic corrosion inhibitors to protect the cooling system.

G30 Mercedes-Benz: MB-Approval 325.3
G40 Mercedes-Benz: MB-Approval 325.5 & MB-Approval 325.6
G48 Mercedes-Benz: MB-Approval 325.0

http://www.glysantin.de/fileadmin/Files/Downloads/Folder/GLY_Approval_EVO1705_EN.pdf

 

[LostKiwi]

Attached is a pic of liquid in the expansion tank of my 2010 w212 E class. Judging by the colour, can anyone tell me what kind of anti-freeze I should be using? Or will any Mercedes approved 325.0 coolant do?
Thanks,
Jim2

No. You can't tell from colour.
The colour is a manufacturer added dye that bears no relation to the type of coolant.

 

[Jim2]

No. You can't tell from colour.
The colour is a manufacturer added dye that bears no relation to the type of coolant.

So its safe to top-up with any anti-freeze which meets Mercedes spec 325.0, regardless of colour......
Thanks Lost Kiwi,
Jim2