Sl500 ABC fault plus central locking fault!!!

[H24k]

I just bought an amg spec sl500 after wanting one for many years and basically this car came with a few problems!!

The suspension is stuck in a funny position basically the front drivers side is slightly lower that the passenger side making the car pull to the right as I drive (its a RHD car) and at the back the passenger side is higher than the drivers side, I basically measured the gap from the wheel in the arch!

And I have the message displayed on the dash ABC visit workshop but its a white message not amber or red and no other warning lights on dash apart from the coolant light and the actual water temperature symbol is red rather than blue! but I believe this is likely a sensor problem as i just drove it over 300 miles with no overheating!

The other fault I have with the car is the central locking is not working, I was expecting to see a blown fuse for the central locking in the fuse box behind the drivers seat but this is not the case and when I press the button on the dash to lock or unlock the doors i can hear what I believe is the pump from the boot working but nothing happens?

Any ideas on what could be wrong with the car would be appreciated so I know what to check.

Thanks

 

[Craiglxviii]

ABC. If you have the white warning message this could be due to any number of problems. Is the suspension very bouncy (as in, undamped)? That you have different strut heights is pointing to valve issues.

Firstly, you must check the condition of the fluid in your ABC reservoir. Engine off, the fluid level must be inbetween the top & bottom level of the UPPER mark. Secondly check the condition of the fluid, is it dark green (new) or browny-black (old, well-used)? You will find the dipstick in a black header tank to the right of the engine as you look at it from the front, it has a blue or turquoise sticker on it. Listen to the pump with the engine on and hood open, is it silent or can you hear a dishdishdish noise?

Check the service history if you have any and look to see if the ABC fluid and filter has ever been changed. If not, it needs doing religiously every 2 years or 20,000 miles. It costs around £200 all told, £170-80 for fluid and £20 for a 3 micron filter. You must use Pentosin CHF.11S ONLY, it is available from Mercedes main dealers or from our forum sponsor Opie Oils' eBay store for around £16-18/ litre. The system holds 8.5 litres. Flushing is a job that can be done at home or you can use a local MB indy.

As regards the strut heights, this points to a few potential issues. One is that someone has buggered up in setting the levels in Star- it does happen. Another, especially if the car is bouncy, is that the lock valves have activated in whatever position the struts were in, due to some system failure or the other.

Do you have a code scanner, preferably an iCarsoft i980 or MBII?

 

[John Laidlaw]

Nothing to add to above, as comprehensive an insight as you'll get on ABC from one who has suffered more than most at the hands of that particular 'innovation'
Oh, except on the Central locking fault I would check under the boot floor to see if you have a swimming pool located around the PSE pump.....

 

[Craiglxviii]

Nothing to add to above, as comprehensive an insight as you'll get on ABC from one who has suffered more than most at the hands of that particular 'innovation'
Oh, except on the Central locking fault I would check under the boot floor to see if you have a swimming pool located around the PSE pump.....

Good point on the PSE, that bit slipped my mind

Just to add, you have some good indies not a million miles away from you. Wayne Gates is in Harrow and Welwyn Merx is in, surprisingly, Welwyn. Both know ABC inside out and can advise far better than I.

 

[television]

If the ABC light is on, then the ABC controls will do nothing, the height could be the problem and set on STAR, As said water could be in the PSE pump, and something that I can help with soon.

 

[John Laidlaw]

If the ABC light is on, then the ABC controls will do nothing, the height could be the problem and set on STAR, As said water could be in the PSE pump, and something that I can help with soon.

Welcome back sir....

 

[H24k]

Thanks for the info guys, I just spent the day looking at all the fuses and checking the fluid levels etc,

I cant find any blown fuses, but when I checked the ABC fluid resevoir under the bonnet, the fluid level is extremely low almost at the bottom and although it doesnt look very dirty its not a bright green colour!!

Im wondering if the fluid drops below a certain level would the pump shut itself off to prevent damage as it appears that this has shut off and the shocks have stayed in the position they were in at the time!

Nothing happens when I press the buttons to raise or lower the car and I can hear any noises from the pump!

If I changed the fluid and filled it up to the correct level would this somehow reactivate the pump if its still working or is there a procedure for this such as using the star diagnostic system?

I could hear a knocking sound from under the car when driving it and was told this is because there is no abc liquid in the shocks hence they knock and also the suspension is very bouncy,

With the rear pump for the central locking I can hear the working but nothing happens so will check the other thread mentioned about the pse pump, and when I looked at the pump in the boot for the roof that also seems half full of fluid and the roof doesnt seem to work either!!!

I can still use the car in its current form as the suspension is not low so its driveable but pulls to the right a bit and I do need to sort all the things out, but aint got loads of money to chuck at it so would need to do as much as I can myself!

 

[Submariner1]

Thanks for the info guys, I just spent the day looking at all the fuses and checking the fluid levels etc,

I cant find any blown fuses, but when I checked the ABC fluid resevoir under the bonnet, the fluid level is extremely low almost at the bottom and although it doesnt look very dirty its not a bright green colour!!

Im wondering if the fluid drops below a certain level would the pump shut itself off to prevent damage as it appears that this has shut off and the shocks have stayed in the position they were in at the time!

Nothing happens when I press the buttons to raise or lower the car and I can hear any noises from the pump!

If I changed the fluid and filled it up to the correct level would this somehow reactivate the pump if its still working or is there a procedure for this such as using the star diagnostic system?

I could hear a knocking sound from under the car when driving it and was told this is because there is no abc liquid in the shocks hence they knock and also the suspension is very bouncy,

With the rear pump for the central locking I can hear the working but nothing happens so will check the other thread mentioned about the pse pump, and when I looked at the pump in the boot for the roof that also seems half full of fluid and the roof doesnt seem to work either!!!

I can still use the car in its current form as the suspension is not low so its driveable but pulls to the right a bit and I do need to sort all the things out, but aint got loads of money to chuck at it so would need to do as much as I can myself!

My ABC fluid is not a bright green, its a light green but clean, and I was told it had the right stuff in it. (If you put some on a white kitchen towel as it absorbs in it leave it slightly green but looks like clear oil).

If that ABC fluid is that low I wouldnt drive it an inch, rather get a cab to MB and buy a liter.
Both Craig and Malcom (Television) know masses about this ABC system .. I would listen to them ... and once topped up. Drive it to Phil Welwynmerx he know ABC backwards. If you are going to do it yourself, maybe he would do an hour or twos diagnostics, and reset the levels so you can drive it.

Hate to be pessimistic, but sounds like a control valve and pump, and one or more accumulators and or struts if they are leaking. I would be extremely surprised if this was not an arm and a leg job.

If you are going to do it yourself, I think as a minimum, you need icarsoft MB II then you could see the pump pressure and the pressures in the relevant sections. At least you could get the codes to give to an Indy.

Can you see any heavily sweating or broken ABC hoses?
Sounds like you have had a big leak and the valve bock(s) have locked hence the banana boat ride effect.

The pump is now about £750 plus fitting. If you have driven it 300 miles with low ABc fluid I would assume its now destroyed.

 

[Submariner1]

I found this article pretty helpful
http://mercedes-abc-drive-carefully.blogspot.co.uk

Syptoms and cures
Even says where componets are on R230 SL500, not so good for my C216

 

[Craiglxviii]

Whoops. If fluid level is that low:

1. You have a leak.
2. System has locked and shut down.
3. Pump is scrap.

 

[John Laidlaw]

Yip carbon copy of my week in some ways, pump is goosed I believe - sorry!
I'm my case not because of low fluid levels (I'm paranoid on that)

 

[Gkinghorn]

Why did you buy it with these faults? Hopefully it was dirt cheap given the expensive nature of the remediation you face... hope you get it sorted soon...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[H24k]

Thanks for all the replies and info guys, I topped up the fluid in abc resevoir and it only took about a quarter of a 1 litre bottle not even that and now the reading on the dipstick is the correct level so it couldnt have been that low!

And the pump looks like it shut itself down hence why the shocks are locked in the current position they are in and basically I only get 2 faults on my dash one is ABC visit workshop but no red warning signs or anything just the whiteish blue message and the other is one of my indicator bulbs!!

The car drives superb apart from this and to be honest if the shocks where all in a level position I would not even be bothered about fixing the ABC as I drove the car over 300 miles and apart from it pulling slightly to the right and a bit more bouncy that usual ( i would imagine!) it drove excellent.

I think my pump is probably mullered but I cant see any leaks of ABC liquid anywhere and the actual liquid is not dirty its a lightish green and clear,

I also own a Cl500 which is in perfect working order and everything works on that and its a low mileage car but the sl drives soo different to the cl, I much prefer the drive!

I also own an Audi S8 and a 3000gt twin turbo aswell as a VR4 as I do love my cars! lol and the reason I bought this sl was that it was the colour I wanted Black with the AMG spec bumpers and alloys etc and it was half the price of the cheapest other sl I could find so Im sure If its just the pump it wont cost me that much to change!

 

[Craiglxviii]

I will reply in more detail tomorrow but the pump cannot shut down. It is engine driven. A low fluid level for anything over a very short distance will scrap it. Ask me how I know (twice!)

When you checked the fluid level initially was it engine on or off and which mark on the dipstick were you reading against?

 

[H24k]

i checked with engine off on the side with the lower marking as the higher marking on other side is for engine hot, I checked this online as its written in German!

And I actually bought it with the pump allready not working, the guy did say it needs a new pump hence why it was soo cheap but said perfectly useable as it is lol

ive seen reconditioned pumps for around £350 I believe but dont know if this is a good idea?

And I thought that if it was a serious issue with the ABC it would show a red warning and say drive carefully etc from what i had read online??

Im no expert at all and these cars seem very complex with this ABC system but I guess I have to have the star diagnostics to check exactly whats up with it, i believe my cousin has this and i will try and get it plugged in during the week, but was wondering if there is anyway to restart the pump if its shut down due to recognising a fault or as it as you said, because its run via the engine its just not working anymore? in other words caput!!

I have no mechanical knowledge so excuse the clueless questions from me lol

 

[John Laidlaw]

As Craig says...and will explain eloquently from bitter experience, and me too...the pump will not shut down to protect itself it just will pack in..end of!
Shame, when it goes on Star they will show the message in the pic.price remanufactured around 750, then new fluid etc.
I'm surprised when you say you bought it knowing the pump was goosed you can't feel it whilst driving, it should be springing like a kangaroo or the wheels almost touching the arches

 

[John Laidlaw]

Looking like this first pic not the second...

 

[Submariner1]

i checked with engine off on the side with the lower marking as the higher marking on other side is for engine hot, I checked this online as its written in German!

And I actually bought it with the pump allready not working, the guy did say it needs a new pump hence why it was soo cheap but said perfectly useable as it is lol

ive seen reconditioned pumps for around £350 I believe but dont know if this is a good idea?

And I thought that if it was a serious issue with the ABC it would show a red warning and say drive carefully etc from what i had read online??

Im no expert at all and these cars seem very complex with this ABC system but I guess I have to have the star diagnostics to check exactly whats up with it, i believe my cousin has this and i will try and get it plugged in during the week, but was wondering if there is anyway to restart the pump if its shut down due to recognising a fault or as it as you said, because its run via the engine its just not working anymore? in other words caput!!

I have no mechanical knowledge so excuse the clueless questions from me lol

If I am not mistaken, its as bad as I thought.
The low marking is for engine running (Motor An). And the high mark is for engine off (Motor Aus Unbeladen). Unladen i.e. No one in it.
I believe both indents have some leaway, and the oil should be at the top of the indentation in both cases if it is hot. But if checked with engine off, you should check after 3-5 mins to allow the oil to settle/drain down a bit like engine oil.

So if you are checking the level engine off against the lower indent, when you start yhe engine the level should drop quite a lot BELOW the lower engine on level mark.

No responsibility taken - up to you to check this first, but thats what I think.
And my knowledge of German concurs.

And the pump can not be shut down, the pulley for it ensures it will always spin with the engine; unless your poly belt is broken.

 

[Craiglxviii]

OK where do we start? Responses in bold.

i checked with engine off on the side with the lower marking as the higher marking on other side is for engine hot, I checked this online as its written in German! The lower mark is for engine on, the upper is for engine off. When the engine is on it will draw fluid volume into the system hence the level in the header tank lowering. Sub is quite correct in what he says. If you have engine off and the mark is at the lower "AN" marking, you're running the pump in a partial vacuum and all of the damage I am about to describe has already, undeniably, inescapably happened...

And I actually bought it with the pump allready not working, the guy did say it needs a new pump hence why it was soo cheap but said perfectly useable as it is lol You crazy, crazy fool you! Being serious, you're causing cascade failure to your whole suspension system by driving it. It isn't perfectly usable at all, the suspension has gone into emergency imminent-failure get-you-to-workshop mode. Do not continue to drive the car on pain of open-wallet surgery. Very serious there.

ive seen reconditioned pumps for around £350 I believe but dont know if this is a good idea? No, avoid at all costs. I did this, the recon pump (going rate for a warrantied one is €550 by the way- died within 2 weeks and the warranty was not honoured. I ended up with a recon one from MB for the same price.

And I thought that if it was a serious issue with the ABC it would show a red warning and say drive carefully etc from what i had read online??

It all depends what the fault is. There are very many that can occur. "Drive carefully" means "Do not exceed 50mph at any costs, do not accelerate, brake or steer suddenly and get to the nearest workshop post haste!"

Im no expert at all and these cars seem very complex with this ABC system but I guess I have to have the star diagnostics to check exactly whats up with it, i believe my cousin has this and i will try and get it plugged in during the week, but was wondering if there is anyway to restart the pump if its shut down due to recognising a fault or as it as you said, because its run via the engine its just not working anymore? in other words caput!!

There are not many experts on this system in the country at all. We are lucky here to have some true experts in the forms of our indies, and people like Malcolm (Television) and Alex Foti who have done a lot of the work in helping noobs like your present interlocutor understand what to do and not to do where hydraulic suspension is concerned!

I have no mechanical knowledge so excuse the clueless questions from me lol

So, ABC, where to start.

You have a great big radial piston pump driven by a power take-off from the engine. A belt and pulley drives a spindle, this has a number of cams on it each of which acts on one of 9 pistons arranged in cylinder like the spokes of a wheel. Fluid goes in the "axle" and comes out at the "rim" under really, really high pressure; MB's ABC system operates at around 180 bar. That's higher than the cylinder compression in your engine! So how does it work- very broad brush description.

Fluid is drawn into the pump from the header tank (we will return to this in a moment so keep it in mind) via the suction restrictor valve. (Point of failure #1 right there. If there is cr@p in the system this valve can jam open or closed. If closed, the pump operates in a vacuum and shreds itself.)
Fluid leaves the pump under high pressure and goes via two lines to the front and rear axles. There it enters a valve block on each axle. Each block has 4 valves, an adjustment shuttle which regulates the amount of fluid going to the strut and a lock valve for each strut. Each of the adjustment valves is stepped with I think either 3 or 4 positions and each of those positions is sealed with one or more O-ring seals. (point of failure #2, O-rings are great when they operate in clean fluid, if they operate in fluid containing a suspension of particulate matter they start to shred... and then leak.)
Fluid then returns back to the header tank and only then does it pass through the filter. NB the filter is on the return low-pressure leg. So any fluid that is drawn into the pump does not first have to pass through the filter, it is only filtered on its return (point of failure #3, low-pressure fluid with potential particulate contamination flows through the return leg eroding any seals it meets).

So if you have a knackered pump, it is still operating, freewheeling if you like, but crucially it is still acting to pump some fluid through the pipework of the system. There is no telling how much cack that has transmitted into the struts and valve blocks. Each piston on the pump has 3 O-rings, if one or more of those have frayed there is no filter to stop the particulate being transmitted into the distribution nodes.

Added to all of that, there's no telling how much cack just from the old fluid has built up inside the valves themselves. Both Pullman and I have had to have valve block rebuilds (and if you need this, I am now a source for the o-ring kits, I have sourced aerospace grade material far better than the original automotive-grade stuff MB used) and the stuff that came out of the blocks was incredible. Chunks of gunge, no wonder the shuttles couldn't seal.

If your SL has the struts locked you will be experiencing what is known as the "tuna boat ride" where low-frequency oscillations are not damped. If THAT is better than driving your CL I'd question if your CL also has problems..!!!

Not sure where you are in London, but as for Independents who are experienced in ABC you have:

Ian @ Star Motor Services in Reading.
Terry @ Wayne Gates in Harrow.
Phil @ Welwyn Merx in, surprisingly, Welwyn.

I very strongly suggest that you say thank you to your cousin for his kind offer, book the car in to one of those places and throw £60-120 at them for a proper Star read and problem diagnosis. If your cousin is not experienced with ABC then you could either do more harm than good (I did the first time!) or end up throwing money, in the form of replacement parts, at the problem and still not fix it.

Edited edit: Pump replacement costs around £1100 inc labour assuming nothing else is wrong.

Always make sure to only ever use Pentosin CHF.11S.

 

[John Laidlaw]

^ Craig says it all right there! Cracking read Craig (well for me anyway as I'm just about to move on, for the OP there may be some sphincter tightening stuff in there/better than an old Hitchcock film!)
And I can confirm the cost to be accurate, pretty much what I'm paying in the middle of this week for mine, provided my Indy doesnt find any other problems (although my pump failure hasn't been due to low fluid levels, thats been confirmed)
Serious work ahead, as Craig says get it to one of these independents - do not pass go, do not collect £200...as they say