Sl500 ABC fault plus central locking fault!!!

Craiglxviii

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Thanks John, been playing on my mind overnight has the OP's predicament!

Well that and the events of Season 7, Episode 1 of The Walking Dead. Brrrr!
 

rexemper

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I just went out and checked the ABC fluid level in the SL and it was a very light green colour (so that's good) and it was just under the 'Unladen' mark. This was with the car cold after it has sat there all night.

Should I be checking in a different way? E.g. run the car, raise and lower it and then wait 10-15 after switching it off to check?

Be good to know if there was a recommended check method.

Thanks
 

Craiglxviii

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I just went out and checked the ABC fluid level in the SL and it was a very light green colour (so that's good) and it was just under the 'Unladen' mark. This was with the car cold after it has sat there all night.

Should I be checking in a different way? E.g. run the car, raise and lower it and then wait 10-15 after switching it off to check?

Be good to know if there was a recommended check method.

Thanks

Basically- with suspension ride height set to standard:

Engine off, car either hot or cold, the fluid should be somewhere in the upper mark.

Engine on, either hot or cold, the fluid should be somewhere in the lower mark.

By all means raise and lower it a few times but this will not make any difference to the fluid level assuming your ride height is set to the standard. Leaving the car 10-15 minutes will not warm the fluid up as it's only flowing through the circuit; heat goes into the fluid as the struts compress when hitting irregularities in the road.
 

rexemper

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Basically- with suspension ride height set to standard:

Engine off, car either hot or cold, the fluid should be somewhere in the upper mark.

Engine on, either hot or cold, the fluid should be somewhere in the lower mark.

By all means raise and lower it a few times but this will not make any difference to the fluid level assuming your ride height is set to the standard. Leaving the car 10-15 minutes will not warm the fluid up as it's only flowing through the circuit; heat goes into the fluid as the struts compress when hitting irregularities in the road.

Thanks, that is perfect! Exactly what I wanted to know. At least it means that the fluid level is ok my car and is the right sort of colour! I think it had some work done on the the suspension a few years ago so maybe it was replaced then.
 

Craiglxviii

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Thanks, that is perfect! Exactly what I wanted to know. At least it means that the fluid level is ok my car and is the right sort of colour! I think it had some work done on the the suspension a few years ago so maybe it was replaced then.

Remember, fluid flush and filter change every 2 years or 20k miles, whichever comes soonest. Follow that and you won't go far wrong. The Pentosin refinery has a CL500 215 "example car" dating back to 2000 that is still on its original struts and pump, just from using that method.
 
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Submariner1

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OK where do we start? Responses in bold.



So, ABC, where to start.

You have a great big radial piston pump driven by a power take-off from the engine. A belt and pulley drives a spindle, this has a number of cams on it each of which acts on one of 9 pistons arranged in cylinder like the spokes of a wheel. Fluid goes in the "axle" and comes out at the "rim" under really, really high pressure; MB's ABC system operates at around 180 bar. That's higher than the cylinder compression in your engine! So how does it work- very broad brush description.

Fluid is drawn into the pump from the header tank (we will return to this in a moment so keep it in mind) via the suction restrictor valve. (Point of failure #1 right there. If there is cr@p in the system this valve can jam open or closed. If closed, the pump operates in a vacuum and shreds itself.)
Fluid leaves the pump under high pressure and goes via two lines to the front and rear axles. There it enters a valve block on each axle. Each block has 4 valves, an adjustment shuttle which regulates the amount of fluid going to the strut and a lock valve for each strut. Each of the adjustment valves is stepped with I think either 3 or 4 positions and each of those positions is sealed with one or more O-ring seals. (point of failure #2, O-rings are great when they operate in clean fluid, if they operate in fluid containing a suspension of particulate matter they start to shred... and then leak.)
Fluid then returns back to the header tank and only then does it pass through the filter. NB the filter is on the return low-pressure leg. So any fluid that is drawn into the pump does not first have to pass through the filter, it is only filtered on its return (point of failure #3, low-pressure fluid with potential particulate contamination flows through the return leg eroding any seals it meets).

So if you have a knackered pump, it is still operating, freewheeling if you like, but crucially it is still acting to pump some fluid through the pipework of the system. There is no telling how much cack that has transmitted into the struts and valve blocks. Each piston on the pump has 3 O-rings, if one or more of those have frayed there is no filter to stop the particulate being transmitted into the distribution nodes.

Added to all of that, there's no telling how much cack just from the old fluid has built up inside the valves themselves. Both Pullman and I have had to have valve block rebuilds (and if you need this, I am now a source for the o-ring kits, I have sourced aerospace grade material far better than the original automotive-grade stuff MB used) and the stuff that came out of the blocks was incredible. Chunks of gunge, no wonder the shuttles couldn't seal.

If your SL has the struts locked you will be experiencing what is known as the "tuna boat ride" where low-frequency oscillations are not damped. If THAT is better than driving your CL I'd question if your CL also has problems..!!!

Not sure where you are in London, but as for Independents who are experienced in ABC you have:

Ian @ Star Motor Services in Reading.
Terry @ Wayne Gates in Harrow.
Phil @ Welwyn Merx in, surprisingly, Welwyn.

I very strongly suggest that you say thank you to your cousin for his kind offer, book the car in to one of those places and throw £60-120 at them for a proper Star read and problem diagnosis. If your cousin is not experienced with ABC then you could either do more harm than good (I did the first time!) or end up throwing money, in the form of replacement parts, at the problem and still not fix it.

Edited edit: Pump replacement costs around £1100 inc labour assuming nothing else is wrong.

Always make sure to only ever use Pentosin CHF.11S.

A near perfect summary of the situation. If I was forced to buy your car unseen now, assuming everything else was perfect, I would deduct the price of replacing all the main ABC components circa £9,000.

If you dont drive it, and get it sorted quickly you might save some parts; like at a £1,000 a go.

As said I am no expert, but had to replace 2 struts on a car with 14,300 miles. Dealer price under warranty £1,900 each!
And now faced with a leaking strut and a misting strut. Cost to replace at a good Indy circa £1,000 each plus an ABC fluid change of circa £250.

IMO Mercedes ABC repairs are on par with Ferarri running costs
 
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H24k

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Thanks Craig for taking the time to give all this info, very much appreciated and again Thanks to everyone else aswell,

Many sleepless nights ahead after reading all this!! lol Nightmares n all!!

I didnt think that the pump would be soo much work and soo costly to sort out!

The car is not low down like ive seen others in the past with ABC problems mine is on the highest setting on the suspension and looks like a kangeroo, and only the front drivers side is slightly lower hence why its pulling to the right as im driving, and with regards to it driving better that the cl, I meant the actual feel of the car and the way it sounds etc alot more sporty than my cl which is ultra smooth but very silent etc, obviously the suspension is not the same and very bouncy on the sl and can hear like a knocking sound underneath which I was told is because theres no fluid in the shocks or struts due to pump. But i can tell that these cars are superb and would be great to have it in all working condition as I recon they are one of the best mercs made apart from the fragile nature of this ABC and also pse system!!

I will get the car checked out and take it from there and hopefully things aint too severely damaged as a result.
 

Craiglxviii

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Thanks Craig for taking the time to give all this info, very much appreciated and again Thanks to everyone else aswell,

Many sleepless nights ahead after reading all this!! lol Nightmares n all!!

I didnt think that the pump would be soo much work and soo costly to sort out!

The car is not low down like ive seen others in the past with ABC problems mine is on the highest setting on the suspension and looks like a kangeroo, and only the front drivers side is slightly lower hence why its pulling to the right as im driving, and with regards to it driving better that the cl, I meant the actual feel of the car and the way it sounds etc alot more sporty than my cl which is ultra smooth but very silent etc, obviously the suspension is not the same and very bouncy on the sl and can hear like a knocking sound underneath which I was told is because theres no fluid in the shocks or struts due to pump. But i can tell that these cars are superb and would be great to have it in all working condition as I recon they are one of the best mercs made apart from the fragile nature of this ABC and also pse system!!

I will get the car checked out and take it from there and hopefully things aint too severely damaged as a result.

If you think that's bad, the A/C compressor on a CL 215 costs £1400 to replace... There should be no knocking sound though. You still have springs... The "shock absorbers" on any car's suspension system are the springs. The "struts" are correctly called dampers, that is they damp out the oscillations returned into the car from the springs after an impulse (hitting a bump). ABC is designed to tune out all oscillations of 4Hz (cycles per second) or less which is why it is great for preventing steering roll or braking dip, but you still feel the bangs and jolts from our worse-than-Somalian roads.

The system has fluid in it, you know this because the struts are locked in their highest setting. Note that they will lock in whatever setting they were in when the system shut down and will not automatically go to the highest setting, so they failed in the position they're in now. The lock valves at least are holding pressure because the struts are still so high. So if the seller told you that then he is either being disingenuous or was outright lying to you.

ABC in its own right isn't fragile, if it's well looked-after it is excellent and even today there are few systems out there that can hold a candle to it. The problem comes when these big expensive cars (with their associated running costs) depreciate to the max and then hit owners who do not spend the money on keeping them tip-top. I was the victim of such an incident as yours too.
 

John Laidlaw

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History.
My car including me has had 4 owners. I know me and what I did, I know very well the previous owner and his fastidiousness is legendary, so 50% of its life has been immaculate care. The problem then is either faulty components or those who 'cared' for the car the other 50%
The jury is hung....
 
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H24k

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Thanks for the info craig and yes he was either lying or just didnt know as it could have been a px car, when i got to the sellers house I noticed he had about 4 cars on his property including an Aston Martin Rapide and asked him if hes a Trader and he said no!

But anyway I found out after that the central locking is also not working which was not mentioned and although I can hear the pump working when I press the dash button to lock the doors nothing happens and it doesnt lock with the remote key either so obvioulsy he was not a genuine person!

And as you said this is what happens ina lot of cases with these cars which cost alot to maintain people just cant afford it and neglect them and this is the result, and obviously you get what you pay for in this life so cant expect to pay half price and get a car that was perfect and this is my own fault i should of looked into the ABC in more detail before rushing and buying it!!

I will sort the problems out slowly, at the moment I really want to address this central locking issue, I found that the key card for the keyless go had the batteries inserted the wrong way round hence it wasnt working and now it works and starts the car etc and also opens the doors when i touch the handles and I noticed the little plastic things that pop up on the top of the door card when you open the doors with the key stay down but the doors still open however they dont seem to close after so I have to use the key in the back of the remote key to lock manually!

I really wanna sort this central locking problem first then start to address the ABC issues.
 
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Craiglxviii

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Thanks for the info craig and yes he was either lying or just didnt know as it could have been a px car, when i got to the sellers house I noticed he had about 4 cars on his property including an Aston Martin Rapide and asked him if hes a Trader and he said no!

But anyway I found out after that the central locking is also not working which was not mentioned and although I can hear the pump working when I press the dash button to lock the doors nothing happens and it doesnt lock with the remote key either so obvioulsy he was not a genuine person!

And as you said this is what happens ina lot of cases with these cars which cost alot to maintain people just cant afford it and neglect them and this is the result, and obviously you get what you pay for in this life so cant expect to pay half price and get a car that was perfect and this is my own fault i should of looked into the ABC in more detail before rushing and buying it!!

I will sort the problems out slowly, at the moment I really want to address this central locking issue, I found that the key card for the keyless go had the batteries inserted the wrong way round hence it wasnt working and now it works and starts the car etc and also opens the doors when i touch the handles and I noticed the little plastic things that pop up on the top of the door card when you open the doors with the key stay down but the doors still open however they dont seem to close after so I have to use the key in the back of the remote key to lock manually!

I really wanna sort this central locking problem first then start to address the ABC issues.

Seriously, get it over to one of the indies mentioned and ask them to lost the faults, diagnose repairs and work with you to get the best cost. If you are not mechanically-minded as you say there won't be that much that you'd be able to attempt to do, fix-wise and the indies that we can point you to are all top guys and very happy to work with you, not just out to make a fast buck.

One thing you must prepare yourself for is, it won't be cheap whatever you do- budget £2.5-3k to get your ABC sorted out, and I do not know about your PSE. Have you had SBC checked yet5?
 

wizzman

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Interesting thread here and a warning to all SL owners. Can I just but in and ask Craigxviii about the O ring kits. I would like to rebuild my valve blocks this year to try and stop the SL sinking down after a few days. Could you maybe PM me Craig with some cost details ?

Cheers

Ian
 

flowrider

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Interesting thread here and a warning to all SL owners. Can I just but in and ask Craigxviii about the O ring kits. I would like to rebuild my valve blocks this year to try and stop the SL sinking down after a few days. Could you maybe PM me Craig with some cost details ?

Cheers

Ian

I think it is John that has the o ring kits.
 

Craiglxviii

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Interesting thread here and a warning to all SL owners. Can I just but in and ask Craigxviii about the O ring kits. I would like to rebuild my valve blocks this year to try and stop the SL sinking down after a few days. Could you maybe PM me Craig with some cost details ?

Cheers

Ian

Hello Ian,

I have the kits in stock. They are £55 per block, for that you get enough O-rings to completely rebuild all of the seals on each valve shuttle in each block plus a few extras. I do not supply the square-cut O-rings that are used as spacers as these are never under any load and should not deteriorate. I can source them however they're really expensive and so far I've not had any requests for them...

The original O-rings were general OEM grade and as we know, do deteriorate over time. The ones that came out of my rear block looked like they had been rubbed with 90 grit glasspaper, they were shredded. So I used my experience (I've been, at various times, an industrial buyer within this sort of industry sector) and sourced aerospace AE-grade Viton O-rings. These are made of a much tougher, more abrasive-resistant material that should stand the test of time far better. So far I have not seen anyone else offer this material, there are 3 or 4 other vendors selling these kits into the UK but all they offer is the base grade stuff.
 

Craiglxviii

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I think it is John that has the o ring kits.

No it's definitely me ;) They're taking up half of one of my bookcases and driving SWMBO potty right at the mo ;)
 

flowrider

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Lucky for me Phil at Welwyn Merx has looked over my ABC and flushed the system.
 
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wizzman

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ok Craig thanks. how do I pay you ? (for two ) I presume it is the same kit for the front and rear block ?
Cheers

Ian
 

Craiglxviii

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ok Craig thanks. how do I pay you ? (for two ) I presume it is the same kit for the front and rear block ?
Cheers

Ian

Drop me a PM with your email address and we can take it from there. Yes the kits are identical front and rear.
 


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